Does Schneider-Kreuznach Symmar 1: 5.6/210 1:12/370 cover 8x10 with movements?

[jon_bergman1]

Hi,

 

Does Schneider-Kreuznach Symmar 1: 5.6/210 1:12/370 cover 8x10 with movements?

[bryan_lemasters]

No, Jon. I do not remember the exact coverage right off hand, but it is comparable to modern 210/5.6 lenses - good coverage for 4x5 w/movements, somewhat more limited for 5x7, does not quite cover 8x10.

[bob_salomon]

The old Symmar convertible coverd a 297mm circle at infinity at f16.It missed 8x10 by a

large amount The minimum circle for 810 is 311mm. The largest format Schneider (the old

Schneider factory not the current one) rated it for was 12 x 17 cm.

 

Modern Apo Sironar and Symmar lenses have greater coverage then the old Sironar and

Symmar convertible lenses so they are not comparable to modern 210 lenses in coverage.

[xbow]

IS there a way to calculate the image circle based on the lens criteria? ...and is image circle all the information that is needed to determine if it is appropriate for an 8X10 (or other size)?

[michael_briggs2]

Schneider very nicely provides information about their older lenses at http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/index.htm. The page on the 210 mm Symmar is http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/symmar/data/5,6-210mm.html. Coverage is listed as 297 mm, as stated by Bob. I'd call that missing 8x10 by a small amount. Since coverage is in the eyes of the beholder, maybe some people might find it to cover with very little or no movements. Schneider's coverage spec is 70 degrees; current modern versions of the plasmat design extend the official coverage to 75 degrees so that a 210 mm plasmat has coverage for very small movements on 8x10.

 

The practical ways to learn the image coverage of lenses are to look up manufacturer's figures, users' reports, or to know the typical coverage of a lens design types. With the later method, older plasmats typically have coverage of about 70 degrees, newer ones sometimes several degrees more.

[mark_sampson]

I would expect that if you convert it (by removing the front half of the lens) the 370mm f.l. would cover 8x10. However it's unlikely to provide a sharp image in the corners (the common wisdom seems to be that converted Symmars are best for portraits). For 8x10, you'd really want a 300 or 360mm Symmar.

[Troll]

Not even close, but the 240mm does.

[michael_briggs2]

An original Schneider brochure for the Symmar says that the "angle of view" at full aperture is 65 degrees, and 70 degrees stopped down. It is clear that they mean "coverage" since the angle depends on the aperture and no format is involved. (They use "angle of vision" for "angle of view".) In converted mode (rear element used alone), the figure is given as "approx. 30 degrees". For a 370 mm focal length, 30 degrees converts to only 198 mm diameter coverage, way below 8x10. But they don't say what aperture the 30 degree figure is for; perhaps more coverage can be obtained by stopping down.

[bob_salomon]

"Does Schneider-Kreuznach Symmar 1: 5.6/210 1:12/370 cover 8x10 with movements?"

 

NO!!.

 

That was the question - note "with movements".

 

As stated earlier, the lens is specified by Schneider, at the time that it was sold, to cover

only a 297mm circle. That is too small a circle to cover 8x10 without movements.

 

If you want to cover 810 with some movements at infinity look at an Apo Sironar S or W

or the later Schneider versions. You will need a 210mm lens that has at least a 75? angle

of illumination to cover 810 and allow for some movements. A 72? coverage 210 Apo

Sironar S will give you 3mm of rise and 2mm of shift with the film positioned horizontally.

The 80? 210 Apo Sironar W will give you 29 and 24mm of shift.

 

The 210mm Symmar will not fill the format at infinity.

[bob_salomon]

"Does Schneider-Kreuznach Symmar 1: 5.6/210 1:12/370 cover 8x10 with movements?"

 

NO!!.

 

That was the question - note "with movements".

 

As stated earlier, the lens is specified by Schneider, at the time that it was sold, to cover

only a 297mm circle. That is too small a circle to cover 8x10 without movements.

 

If you want to cover 810 with some movements at infinity look at an Apo Sironar S or W

or the later Schneider versions. You will need a 210mm lens that has at least a 75? angle

of illumination to cover 810 and allow for some movements. A 75? coverage 210 Apo

Sironar S will give you 3mm of rise and 2mm of shift with the film positioned horizontally.

The 80? 210 Apo Sironar W will give you 29 and 24mm of shift.

 

The 210mm Symmar will not fill the format at infinity.