Pentax K10D vs Nikon D40X

[dan_hall4]

Planned on buying a Nikon D40X today from B&H. It will be my first DSLR. I

read about the Pentax K10D and its weather resistance. Sounds like it is a

larger and stronger body as well. Very impressed with what little I have seen

about the K10D. My main interest in landscape photos and adding an ultrawide

lens and polarizer for doing so. How weather resistant is it? Cant find any

insights on that. Can I literally use it in the rain. I see the DA* lens boast

the same weather resistant claims. What about image quality. That is the one

well documented thing that attracts me to the Nikon D40X. Anyone have an

opinion on how the K10D would compare to the D40X. I read many conflicting

reviews and dont have the insight to decifer for myself which is a better

camera for my needs. I like the simplicity of the D40X and the more rugged

body of the K10D. Lens availability gives the nudge to Nikon. But I cant get

this Pentax out of my mind. Any opinions on the K10D vs. the D40X? Thanks for

any thoughts.

[xpiotiavos]

I don't own either camera, so I can't speak to the image quality (although I have no doubt that the people on here who do own the K10D will tell you the IQ is excellent).

 

One thing I can point though is that with the K10D, you can use any Pentax lens ever made without losing any of the len's original functions. In other words, reviews state that older lenses have some restrictions, but in my experience that just means that the autofocus won't work with manual focus lenses (that's not a restrictions to me, just a property of the lens). Anyway, the D40x will not autofocus with any of Nikon's older screw-driven auto focus lenses, which means that you are considerably restricted in terms of which lenses are available to you.

 

Another thing I can point out, not owning but having handled both cameras, is that the D40x feels like it would break if I held it two tightly, and the K10D feels like I could throw it against the wall without damaging it (i don't plan on testing that out, obviously). Build quality is a HUGE advantage, especially if you want your investment to last for years to come.

[john_ferguson3]

I read one persons account of the account of the K10D's weather resistance (it's been a few weeks since I saw it, otherwise I'd post a link to it). Basically he said it started raining, so he put his K10D and his wife camera in the camera bag. When they got to the car, rain had seeped into the bad, thouroughly drenching the everything in the bag and leaving, as I recall, about 2 inches of water in it. The cameras were laying in the water. The K10D, upon testing, worked perfectly. The other camera? No sign of life from it.

 

IQ wise, if you shoot RAW, reviews show it produces sharper pictures than the new Canon 40D. Jpegs are softer (this is intentional from what I've read - designed for PP). The kit lens DA 18-55mm, for a kit lens, does pretty good, better than most kit lenses (again from reviews I've read). Personally, I find it is pretty good too, though it feels rather light in weight to me. I have an 18-20 year old Takumar-F 75-210mm I've used on my K10D and it's has slightly better IQ than the kit lens. I haven't checked how it compares to the kit lens that came with my old SF1.

 

Color reproduction is good (unlike this monitor I'm using at work).

 

I was about to get a Nikon D80 when I came across the K10D. I'm glad I picked the K10D.

[david_kelly13]

"Lens availability gives the nudge to Nikon." Nope, only a small subset of Nikon's huge catalog of glass works with the 40D; whereas any Pentax lens ever made can be used on the K10D, with the benefit of shake reduction. I shot film Nikons for 40 years, but frankly, Pentax has better glass for digital, especially the made for digital DA Limited primes and the DA* zooms, and the fabulous FA35mm f2.

 

You have to tweek the record menu settings to get zappy JPEGs out of the K10D, or better yet shoot raw and post process. If you aren't willing to do either and plan to use the camera only as it comes out of the box, buy the Nikon. If you are willing to read the manual and undergo a short learning curve, The Pentax is a far more capable and rugged machine.

[mawz]

There's little comparison. The K10D is essentially a D200 in D80 clothes, with built-in VR. The D40X is in every way an inferior body.

 

Also note that the vast majority of those Nikon lenses will not AF on a D40 or D40X, which only supports AF-S and AF-I lenses for AF.

[garydem]

because of the design the 40x can only be used with nikon lenses that have the "-S" in the name. so all the vast nikon lens's are not available. but it is extremely likely that there is enough to do what you want.

the pentax through adapters has 24000000 lenses available from pentax alone. that have been built in the past, MANY are available on ebay. and they all work in varing degrees.

 

the better current pentax lenses take a back seat to noone. they are among the best that can be made. there is one known pro who flatly states in a long article that the pentax FA50mm f1.4 is the best 50mm lens that has ever been built by anyone.

 

from the k10 the jpegs are soft. but it was designed that wat; it was intended that the user would do all sharpening in the pc. the user simply puts the camera in natural mode adjust saturation and contrast to own likes and leave the sharpening in the mid default position. the pics after pc sharpening are fine. there are some reviews that have stated that the k10 is actually outresolving the c & n competition.

 

i will state that no camera should be used in a torrential downpour; you are asking for a problem. if you have to shoot in the rain there are rain suits for the camera(any make) that exist and can protect it from bad weather. but the k10 is sealed so that a light rain will not damage it.

 

in favor of the k10 is inbody shake reduction SR; any lens you put on it will have that feature. for c & n you have to buy the SR on every lens and it is an extra $. the k10 also has an antidust feature the d40x does not.

 

make no mistake the d40x can be used as a p&s, but the k10d is designed for someone who know something about photography and therefore can get the most from the k10. check the pentax dslr forum on dpreview.com they have many k10 shots. also the picture forum there.

[dan_hall4]

Thanks for all the info. I appreciate it. Sounds like the K10D is a more serious camera than the Nikon D40X. That is a little intimidating, but exciting at the same time. Perhaps a camera I could grow into rather than out of. I did want to ask about the "soft images" that the Pentax makes. Am I understanding that I am expected to work on the photos afterwards in an Adobe program to make them as sharp/clear as possible. I have Photoshop Elements 3.0 on my PC now. Barely use it, but have it. Is that appropriate for the work I would have to do to the images the K10D captures. Sounds like the Nikon D40X will make better pictures if I am not willing to spend the time on the PC with the Pentax images. Is that true or am I missing the boat all together. Also, is the Pentax a larger frame size. I am 6'6" 3oo lbs. I dont like small things usually. I am on Nantucket,Mass and have no way to see any of these cameras before purchasing. Any insights on the size/stature/build quality would be helpful. I am sure both are capable cameras but I lack the knowledge at this point to decifer half of what I am reading. Any insights most appreciated.

[paul_thebert]

The K10D is physically bigger and heavier than the D40X. If you have big hands, you will like the K10D's feel better. Both have good build quality, but the Pentax is a tank by comparison in terms of durability.

The Shake Reduction will help you some if you want to make hand held landscape photos.

[celasun]

K10D is not comparable to the D40X in terms of build quality an lens compatibility. K10D is bigger&heavier and can get even larger if you also buy the vertical grip (+ extra battery housing). Its viewfinder image is also far better than D40X, this can be very important...

 

You do not have to play with the images in a PC if you don't want to; just make the adjustments according to your taste and K10D will produce better quality jpeg images than all the digital SLRs within its price range. However, it is designed for more serious work and it would be nice if you delve into the realm of post processing (as a consequence of shooting in RAW format). There are many other tools than Photoshop. Be prepared to spend some time (a lot more than the time you spend for shooting) for these processes... They are there to help you make your photographs better.

[dave_sage1]

Dan, I can tell you two very specific things with regards to your comments here, and follow up a little further down the thread regarding the K10D.

 

If you are going to shoot mainly landscapes you will want to step up to a 16-45mm, or step back a generation to the FA J 28-80mm (which I did because it was much cheaper). I found the kit lens sold to me with my K10D to be relatively soft on small detail like tree leaves unless I shot at higher than usual shutter speeds, which is not always possible. The FA J is a better lens--I did a small side by side with it and my kit lens and there is no doubt in my mind.

 

As far as the 'intimidation' factor goes, I was coming back to photography after 20 years away--had never held a truly digital camera in my hands, let alone used one. I picked up most of the basic necessities to operate this camera in 2 days. It is _extremely_ intuitive and user-friendly. Personally I find this to be especially so compared to the ever popular Canon Rebel series. I use one of those to shoot at a volunteer gig I do.

 

The basic manual that comes with the camera is quite good, and there are several detailed books out there already, should the need arise to acquire a deeper understanding.

 

I know friends who own the D40 and I am told it's basically a fancy point and shoot. The K10D is a user-friendly, semi-pro camera. Go for it, Dan. Just be wary of too high a level of expectation from the kit lens when shooting those lovely detailed panoramas.

 

D

[david_kelly13]

"Is that true or am I missing the boat all together." You are partly missing the boat. You can make changes to the factory default settings for contrast, color saturation and sharpness in the record mode menu inside the camera, no computer necessary. Most news photographers, who do not have time for post processing, operate this way, and send"fine" jpegs to their editors. Making these settings only takes a couple of minutes, but you do have to read part of the manual to find out how to do it.

[xpiotiavos]

Regarding the sharpness issue: If all you want to do it shoot jpegs and use your camera like a P&S, I seriously doubt that you'll notice the difference between the two in the first place. If, on the other hand, you want the best possible image from whatever camera you have, you should be shooting in RAW format anyway. And as already stated, the K10D's RAW images are superior to the brand new "cutting edge" Canon 40D. I would be shocked if the Nikon D40x's RAW images were anywhere near as sharp was the K10D's.

 

In terms of sharpening in post process, you don't need to open up each picture and sharpen it individually in Elements. The software that comes with the K10D can, from what I've heard on this board, be easily configured to sharpen all the images a bit before you open them up in Photoshop. Although, if you have the budget for it, I suggest getting Adobe Lightroom, which makes RAW processing incredibly easy and does a fantastic job all around.

 

Regarding camera size: the Nikon D40x is similar in size and weight to my Pentax *ist DL. I'm 6'2" and have comparably small hands, and my DL is borderline too small for me--after holding it for awhile, my hands have even started to crap up. The K10D, on the other hand, has been praised for its ergonomics time and again on this board.

[xpiotiavos]

that's CRAMP up, not crap up. ha. sorry. ;)

[mawz]

Just a note on the D40's lens compatibility. The D40/D40X is the only current Nikon body which can mount ALL Nikon F mount lenses back to 1959 except the IX Nikkors which only work on the Pronea APS-C SLR's. However it will only AF with AF-S or AF-I lenses and will only meter with CPU-Equipped lenses (All AF lenses, the 85mm Micro-P.C and the 3 AI-P lenses). You can still use non-CPU lenses in M mode with external/Sunny 16 metering.

[michael s.]

I can recommend the K10D <b>unless</b>:<p>

 

(i) you want the smaller and appreciably lighter camera; or<p>

 

(ii) you plan to shoot jpeg only, never raw; and I'd make the D40 recommendation even more vehemently if you say you want to shoot not only jpegs, but only at the manufacturer's default settings; or<p>

 

(iii) you see yourself in the near future considering an upgrade to a much faster "pro-level" body, in which case Nikon has them but, for the moment at least, Pentax does not; or<p>

 

(iv) the extensive array of fast (but typically also heavy and expensive) pro level zoom lenses that Nikon has, but Pentax has considerably fewer of, is important to you.<p>

 

Finally, I disagree with the idea that the D40X is a "fancy point and shoot." Don't have that camera, but it's very much a real dslr, capable of superb picture-taking -- but it's lighter, smaller, and has fewer features than Nikon's other dslr's. Be aware of the D40's autofocus limitations mentioned above. If you use, or plan to get, a fast Nikkor prime, such as a 24mm, a 35mm or a 50mm, those Nikkor lenses will take pictures, but will not autofocus on the D40/D40x.<P>

 

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[jgredline]

Being that I own both, I can tell that there is no comparison...The K10D rocks the nikon..I also own a D200 and that one is on par with the K10D.

As far as image quality goes, spend the money on ''good glass''and you will be more than pleased...As far as weather resistant goes, I have had my K10D out in the rain once (it does not rain very much in LA but have taken it to the beach many times...I would not take my Nikons to the beach for fear of destroying them.....

[michael_kuhne]

I concur with most of the above. The Nikon D40 series is entry level category with many shortcomings. No Depth of field preview, mirror lockup, and more. The Pentax K10D is a professional-oriented camera with a fine build quality and finger-tip pro control layout. With its exclusive Hyper control system, it is the fastest operating and most versatile DSLR out there. For many low-light landscape situations you will want a tripod and the mirror lockup for longer exposures. Same for closeups.

[trw]

As to the non-vibrancy of the jpegs... set the JPEG processing

to "digital vibrance" in the menu, and the raw mode to "RAW+JPEG" (I

use DNG since it works with vuescan). Then use JPEG by default but

hit the raw button when you need it.

 

It's like instantly being able to switch from slides to negatives.

[david_kelly13]

one more thing to consider if you live on Nantucket is a particular lens, the Pentax DA 14mm f2.8. Due to the digital crop it has the field of view of a 21: 90 degrees; but it still has the huge depth of focus of a 14.It is comparatively light at 15 ounces, costs about half as much as similar lenses from Canon and Nikon, and has hardly any barrel distortion. This thing can make the inside of a pup tent as vast as a ballroom. It would be ideal for conveying the vast sweep of beach, sea and sky, and would be equally useful on architectural topics, of which your island has plenty.

[dan_hall4]

Michael,

What does this mean,

 

"The Nikon D40 series is entry level category with many shortcomings. No Depth of field preview, mirror lockup, and more"

 

Will that effect my ability to take night photos. For instance photographing the northern lights? I plan to use the camera for that. Thanks for any info.

[xpiotiavos]

Dan, "mirror lockup" refers to the ability to lock the mirror in the up position BEFORE you release the shutter. This keeps the vibration due to the motion of the mirror from causing motion blur in shots requiring longer shutter speeds. I use the mirror lockup when ever I'm taking exposures over 2 seconds. If you want to photograph a subject as difficult as the aurora, you'll definitely want to be able to lock your mirror up.

[nicholas_fiduccia]

Dan, As many have said, the K10D is superior to the D40X in almost all ways and since you can get a K10D body for under $600 after rebate - about the same price as a D40X, there is no question which one I would buy.

 

If you can, the Nikon D200/D300 is another camera body that is better than than the K10D. Also, it may fit your large hands better. However,it is quite a bit more expensive at $1400/$1800.

[jgredline]

Nicholas Fiduccia

 

Where can I purchase a K10D body for under 600.00?

I will order it tonight as I could use an extra body

[nicholas_fiduccia]

B&H photo has it for $700 plus the the $100 rebate brings it to $600. BuyDIG.com has it for even less.

[jgredline]

Thanks Nicholas

At that price it is worth getting another body to avoid lens changes out in the field.