Radio Frequency interference Problems with Canon on Movie Sets

[claire_folger]

I am a professional still photographer shooting a Canon 5D on Movie Sets. I have been struggling with

problems I atribute to using the camera in an area where there are a lot of radio frequency transmissions,

from Walkies, to remote focusing devices, or even transmitted picture signals from motion picture

cameras.

I am not sure if ALL these devices are causing me problems, but most definitely, walkies are.

I only experience this with my Canon 5D.

 

Has anyone experimented with the newer Canons on movie sets, and if so, can anyone tell me what

cameras do NOT experience these problems close to walkies?

I know that Canon 20D does not have this problem. Any experience with MarkII or Mark III, or even 40D's?

[J.W. Wall]

What does Canon say about it?

[picturesque]

What, exactly, are the problems? Canon will probably not have anything to say about it. I've experienced problems (misfires) with off camera flash triggering when using my 580EX and my Wein infrared ProSync system, even turning off focus assist, autofocus, and using the 580EX in manual (no preflash). When I called Canon about it, they basically shrugged their shoulders and told me to contact Wein (who of course, didn't know anything about it).

[bill_morrow1]

Physically, how close are the portables? Some of those Motorola units

are rated at 5 watts. Inquire what band they are operating? High band (like around 173 mhz; UHF or trunked, which would be in the 800 mhz region. Also...what function on the 5D is affected by the RFI?

I have a 5D, but don't generally have occasion to use it in an RF-rich

environment. When they're not shooting, borrow a portable and try to duplicate the problem. I'm not sure any of this is going to help, but

it's a direction.

[fourfa]

There was an early bug reported with the 5D that could result in severe banding when used in high-EMF environments. IIRC it was corrected with extra shielding on one circuit board.

[PuppyDigs]

Stages and movie sets are RFI hell. I had to buy the most expensive heavily shielded audio

gear to keep RFI from ruining my recordings. Obviously I never had problems with my film

cameras, but have noticed strange patterns in images on all my DSLRs and video cameras

when shooting in high RFI areas, e.g, near transmitting towers and some orchestra pits. Now

the images are still useable but have repeating patterns visible when pixel peeping.

[frank_skomial]

Would have helped if you described your problem in terms how your 5D camera fails you.

 

Seems that you are mostly concerned with "radio" signals, and not optical or infrared signals, righ? - If not then that expands dramatically range of reasons for failure, whatever the failure you experience.

 

I believe harder to fight are the "strange patterns in images on all my DSLRs" as described by Puppy Face, while other reasons are easily preventable or avoidable. Perhaps your camera 5D needs solution described by Andy Radin.

[whwhitejr]

Claire, I have had focus problems with my 5D and my 30D in the local high school gym. I found it was the old type fluorescent lights 60hertz transformer types. maybe it's a light problem, Bill

[uncle_ziba]

I never thought of this "drawback" of digital cameras. My guess there are very high gain op amps that get affected by RF noise and the sensor itself is the antenna.

 

If you think about it - RF shielding the sensor when it need to be facing the "open air" is going to be a challenge. Sounds like you found a problem... ;)

[claire_folger]

Hi everyone. Thanks for responding. I will upload a photo.I have experienced a wave

pattern or line pattern within my

images. It can be very severe to minor, and it seems to vary with the set I am working on,

and how close I am working to offending equipment.

This same problem has occured while using 3 separate Canon 5D cameras on set. I have

asked Canon about the problem. Their response:

 

I have researched your request regarding the 5D and possible noise from radio

interference. Based on the description of the noise pattern we have not encountered any

direct cause associated with one particular camera. The environment in which the camera

is used with an increase in radio transmission may result in electronic disturbance for any

electronic device. The camera and accessories all meet FCC regulations. A description of

these regulations can be found on page 176 of the instruction manual. Of course if you

would like for the factory service to evaluate your camera(s) for proper operation we would

be happy to provide an inspection and complete any necessary repairs.

 

I have already sent one of the cameras into Canon, along with a disk of images showing

the problem, and they say they have made "minor electronic adjustments" however, the

problem persists. Andy.. will Canon replace the circuit board with one that contains the

shielding? Apparently on this repair they didn't.

[mike_earussi1]

Wow Claire, that is extreme! I wonder if anyone has noticed this problem with any other makes of digital cameras?

[frank_skomial]

Your attached picture shows room full of electronic equipment of all sorts If all of that is powered up, you could have some extreeme condition there. That is not to excuse Canon for making poor shielding.

[claire_folger]

The equipment that you see is not operational. It is all props and set dressing. I do agree that

working on a set is an extreme condition, but so far no one seems to have this problem

except with Canon 5D equipment.

 

Before I buy another Canon camera, If anyone has had this experience with other Canon

cameras!

[roamingstudio]

Can you hire a 1D series for a day and test to see if it happens there as well?

 

It might also be a lighting issue; if there is a light source (not necessarily visible) which has a refresh rate similar to the readout speed of the CMOS sensor then it could be banding similar to when using video camera to watch a CRT monitor. However in this case it would need to be very high frequency. Are they doing any motion capture scenes with IR systems?

 

Does the pattern stay the same for different ISO settings? (e.g. 100 vs 1600).

[phule]

As has been mentioned, there have been previous threads regarding the 5D and this phenomenon. I would contact Canon directly for a fix.

[joseph_pribe]

<p>notice the 5D is called out specifically...are you using a filter? have you tried a range of lenses?</p><p>

-JP</p>

 

<p>***from <a href="http://hannemyr.com/photo/defects.html" target=_blank>http://hannemyr.com/photo/defects.html</a>***</p>

 

<p>----snip---</p>

 

<p>Moiré</p>

 

<p>Moiré can be avoided by the use of a so-called anti-alias-filter on the digital sensor. This is an optical filter that cuts down the sampling frequency to half of the imager's sensel pitch, keeping it below the Nyquist frequency. But because an anti-alias filter also will make digital images appear softer and less sharp, some manufacturers choose to make cameras without, or with a weak anti-alias filter. Cameras without an anti-alias filter include the Kodak DCS Pro 14n and Sigma SD10, while the Nikon D1h and the Canon EOS 5D are cameras with a weak anti-alias filter.

 

<p>The image below, taken with a Canon EOS 5D, shows the effect of false colour moiré. It is typical of a Bayer sensor with a too weak anti-alias filter.

<p>----snip---<p>you'll have to hit the site to see the pic

 

<p>obligatory wiki article: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9" target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moire</a></p>

[phule]

Joseph,

 

This is not moire. This is indeed RF interference.

 

Here's a previous thread with the 5D and RF.

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00IvZy

[claire_folger]

There have been similar reports of interference that looks like the kind I experience:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Kk2l

 

I find this is more noticable at the higher ASA ranges, but it is still detectable at the low

ones too.

 

Yes, I think I am going to have to rent other Canon cameras so I can try them out on set.

My old 20D never behaved in this way. I am looking to the 40D for my second camera, but

unsure as to whether to trade up to the Mark III 1Ds or the MarkIII 1D.

 

Confidentially I have heard that owners of the Mark II do not seem to have this problem.

[joseph_pribe]

Rob,

 

Most of the "confirmed" RFI examples I have viewed indicates RFI causes straight lines to appear. The OPs image has wavy lines. I was throwing a different idea out...regardless, since I have looked at this thread and poked around the net a bit concerning this issue with the 5D, I can now stop thinking about upgrading to the 5D from my 20D.

[claire_folger]

When I posted this thread, I also sent e-mails to a few people in the film industry asking

them if they have experienced the same problem. Although some people have said that

they have never experienced this problem, there have been confirmed reports from others,

and the problem has been discussed with a West Coast Canon rep. It has been hard to

determine exactly what is causing this, because the problem is intermittent. After my test

with a walkie, I am pretty convinced that walkie transmission accounts for at least some of

the problem.

 

I have been convinced to trade up to the Mark III series.. The consensus seems to be that

that camera will not be susceptible to that kind of interference.

[justin_bastien]

I encountered this problem while shooting with the Canon 5D on a recent shoot. I had a Motorola walkie-talkie (Model: T9500) mounted on my chest to communicate with the subject. Twenty to thirty photos from the shoot contained a strange interference pattern. I have never had this problem in the past.<div></div>