Beseler Topcon Super D and lens serial number system

[richard_zhao1]

Does anybody know the serial numbering system for Beseler Topcon Super D camera

body and lens? I just got one set of Beseler Topcon Super D today. I am curious

to find out which year it was produced and how many same model were produced for

the same series.

 

Body serial#: 7100126

 

Lens:

58/1.8 11655193;

100/2.8 7505176;

28/2.8 1411706;

20/4 1350488;

58/3.5 macro 13750156

[gene m]

The body was made 1971-1974.

[clay2]

The Topcon Super D is one of my all-time favourites because

the light metre is etched on the back of the mirror. Was my

camera of choice B4 the Nikon F came out.

Try rhis link:

 

http://members.cox.net/topconcollection/index.html

 

/Clay

[john_shriver]

The first two or three digits of classic Topcon serial numbers are the model code of the product. So the original Super-D/RE Super was the 46A, so the serial numbers all started with 46. The later Super-D with the shorter wind stroke, mirror lock, and shutter lock is the 71A, so the serial numbers start with 71. The Super DM is the 72A, so the serial numbers start with 72.

 

Gene's got the date range right for the 71A.

 

The wind mechanism is a little fragile on the 71A and 72A versions, but there are also a lot of improvements elsewhere in the camera.

 

You 58/1.8 is the last version, the 116. The 100/2.8 is the 75, and the (rareish) 28/2.8 is the 141. The quite rare 20/4 is the 135, and the 58/3.5 Auto Macro is the 137. You have some of the best lenses there.

 

Do go get a 58/1.4, they're quite affordable. (Especially if you're willing to tear it down to clean out greasy iris blades.)

 

There is no date coding in the serial numbers.

 

The lenses can be roughly dated by physical characteristics, like slot versus Philips screws, the color of the focus mark (red/green), capitalization on the trim ring, the milling on the back of the lens to allow use on the original Topcon R, etc.

[richard_zhao1]

Thanks John for all the help. It is in a very good condition. Meter is still working, but I do not know how accurate it is. Self-timer is working; shutter speed is accurate. The film presure board looks still very new to me.

 

For MLU, I have not figure it out yet. I think it is the bottom under the DOP bottom. I have to try it to night.

 

Thanks,

[richard_zhao1]

By the way, the focus marks on all the lens are green. I did not pay much attention to the screws. Does that tells something about those lens?

[dennis_w3]

The green dot generally means later model lenses, earlier ones being red dots. It's great to see all these comments about Topcon, my favorite 35 mm system. I've used them for 30 years now, they're fun and intuitive. Not all bodies have the MLU, which is on the lower left corner of the lens mounting standard. It can be either a knurled wheel or, on the the DM, it's a pointed lever. I sure would like to have one of those ultra rare 20 mm Topcors. After waiting quite a few years, I finally was able to grab a 28, one of the sharpest lenses I own, almost as sharp as the 100.

 

John, what are the winding issues on the early models? I have a fairly early D, and I'd like to know if there's something I should be careful with--although, I must say, after about 1,000 rolls of film through it, I would guess it would have showed up by now.

[john_shriver]

The original 46A models are solid as a rock in the film wind department, but it takes 180 degrees of wind lever turning to advance the film and cock the shutter.

 

The 71A and later models only require 135 degrees of wind lever operation. This is done by stacking a lot more gears in the same cavity in the upper right corner of the camera. The bearings for these gears are not sophisticated, they just ride in punched holes in 1mm thick sheet steel. They have to be well lubricated, or they can start to wear. It's all just a bit fidgety, and doesn't have quite as crisp a feel as the 46A's wind mechanism.

 

The advantage of the shorter wind stroke is minimal, since you can multi-stroke anyways.

 

I presume if the wind gears blew out, you could easily get a junker Super D and cannibalize. I suspect you can even put the 46A gear assembly in a 71A or 72A, but I'm not sure.

 

The 71A uses a wheel for mirror lock up (roll the side up), the 72A uses a much nicer (but vulnerable) lever.

 

The 20/4 is quite rare, say 1400 units. The 28/2.8 there were over 6000 of, they seem to be getting more common on eBay -- but the hood is very hard to find. The 85/1.8 is the Holy Grail, less than 1000 made! The auto version of the 300/5.6 is quite rare, a little over 1000 made. (But I would recommend the Tamron SP 54B in that focal length -- a superb and under-appreciated lens.)

 

One of the wides has light falloff issues, probably the 25/3.5, although it could be the 35/2.8. The 25/3.5 is a very early design.

 

As for lens age, your first change is from red to green dot on the DOF scale. Then the change to Philips head screws. Then the change to mostly upper case on the trim rings. Finally the switch to the satin black finish around the time of the Super DM. For more details, see http://www.topconcollection.com .

 

The cameras hardly need any maintenance. The shutters just work and work. The mirror damper foam, and the back seals, will be the first thing to go. The meter system is a bit fragile, the wires to the mirror can break. Improper disassembly can quickly break the pointer off the meter movement.

 

The lenses are prone to oil on the diaphragms. Especially the 58/1.4 (a design defect in that lens).

[john_shriver]

Oh, skip the RE GN Topcors (50/1.4 and 50/1.8). Ergonomically bad due to the backwards focusing and the cam action of the focusing, and the grease on the focus cam is usually cement. As the crowning touch, the 50/1.4 uses Lanthanum glass, is quite radioactive, and the glass in all of them is tea brown by now. (Just like the radioactive Summicron, but a real surprise in a 1970's lens design.) The 50/1.4 is sharp as a tack (superb review in Modern Photography), but the other problems negate this by now.

[dennis_w3]

You're right about the the GN lenses, I received one with my DM, and it was tight as a drum when I got it it. A dear friend of mine who happens to be an expert in things mechanical, disassembled it, cleaned the gunk out of it, disabled the goofy lever to switch to GN linking, lubed it sparingly, and reassembled it for me. OMG it's a sharp lens, and as for the coating, it does have a slightly brownish tint to it, which, I believe, imparts a nice tone to color prints. Maybe my imagination. I don't love it, but it takes great photos.

 

I did have the Holy Grail at one time, the 85 1.8, with hood, and that was also an incredibly sharp lens, especially for its speed. Also the Auto 300. Like the damn fool I am, I sold them when our kids were born 20 years ago. I weep for the 85 every day.

 

The long throw wind lever is definitely more silky, too, part of the pleasure of using the early models!

[john_shriver]

I managed to catch the RE Auto 300/5.6 this year on a Buy-It-Now price from Sweeden, a silly $185, mint, caps and case. About half market value. But, I think the Tamron SP 54B is the better lens, only quirk is that like all Adaptall lenses, the aperture ring is backwards for Topcon. (That's annoying given the meter readout.)

 

My 85/1.8 was bought in 1984, for an embarrassingly low price. But it cost twice as much as other Topcors were fetching then. Now it fetches 10 times as much as other Topcors.

 

The RE GN 50/1.4 was $50 at the Underground Camera Clearance Center in Lechmere (Cambridge), brand new in box, about 1978. I got my money's worth out of it before it turned brown.