Historical Photographers

[bill_lindley]

Hi, I have been suprised that there have been no answers to my question about Camilis S. Fly. Does no one here have any interest in past photographers? I am an outdoor photographer, and concentrate on the Desert and "old west". I have a great sense of following the historical artists and photographers, particularly those of the early western period. This was one of the reasons I have gone into Large Format. I can not help being amazed and thrilled at the difficulty these brave, adventureus photographers went through. I am often suprised by this forum, when I read how many large format photographers use quickloads and dislike the trouble of loading film.

We need to remember that in the 1800's, photographers had to flow

wet emultion onto 8x10 or even 24x18 inch plates, shoot and develop the plates while they were still wet, and all this while in the field!

 

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I hope some of you can see your place in the history of photography, and the tradition that we are part of. Again I would like to ask if any one has heard of Camilus S. Fly, or other historical photographers

that are interesting and have contributed to the historical past.

Thanks,

 

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Bill

[ron_shaw]

I thought about that about a year ago when I was going through the

latest National Geographic. An artical about a NG photographer (sorry,

dont have the name offhand) who was on assignment in asia around the

turn of the century. Apparently NG was going through thier archives

and came upon a bunch of 5x7 glass plates from his work. The article

told about the conditions he had to go through to take the photos,

from dealing with broken glass plates, weather, etc. We do have it

quite easy, dont we? I still load my filmholders, at least.

[penny_chase]

I confess that I haven't heard of Camilus S. Fly. But I have recently

fallen in love with the work of Carleton Watkins. I received a small

book about him for Christmas (the In Focus series from the Getty

Museum), and later had the opportunity to see the major show about him

at the NY Metropolotan Museum of Art and to buy the catalogue. Given

all of the limitations of the time (mammoth glass plates, portable

dark room, the different sensitivities of emulsions), his work is

amazing.

 

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I think he was one of the most skilled craftsmen among nineteenth

century photographers. Truly amazing tonal ranges. And he was also one

of the most gifted artists - very powerful compositions (some of which

are strikingly modern).

[ellis_vener_photography]

Have you checked with the local museums? How about with the Center for Creative Photography at the University of Arizona?

[sean_yates]

What about those Old West Renenacting Groups that go out and shoot

blackpowder on the weekends?

[tony_brent]

I have never heard of this photographer. Do you have any more

references about him? Where he worked, when? I have seen some original

Curtis prints out in Seattle. I understand most of them were done on

printing-out paper and gold toned. Beautiful things.

 

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One of these days I would like to take the Polaroid 20x24 and retrace

W H Jackson's travels.

[raymond_bleesz]

Bill

 

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i have not run across your historical "Fly" photographer, however, i

may pass on a name and email of a person who just may answer your

question. His name is Hal Gould, Director of the Camera Obscura

Gallery in Denver. Hal is an older gentleman who is an authority on

19th & 20th century photography--is well versed in western photo

history and has one of the best fine art galleries in the usa--the

oldest. "hgould@iws.net"-- the denver public library as well as the

Colo Historical Society have excellent archives--Eric Paddock is the

Curator of photo at the CHS. A particular photographer at the turn of

the century who lived and worked in the silver/gold mining town of

Georgetown, "The Silver Queen of the West"--a place that WH Jackson

photographed, is Ben Draper who is of interest to me--if you run

across his images let me know. His images are of Georgetown, the Famed

Loop, and Silver Plume. Draper's images are not widely known nor did

he do much work outside of this local.

 

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Raymond A. Bleesz

bleesz@vail.net

[jim_worthington]

Bill,

You might try the photographic history listserve. I learned about it

through the links section of the Royal Photographic Society's website,

www.rps.org.

FWIW, I am very interested in 19th century photographers. Currently,

I'm reading a book about the surveys by Hayden, King, Powell & Wheeler

from the late 1860s to the late 1870s. William Henry Jackson and

Timothy H. O'Sullivan accompanied three of the four surveyors with

hundreds of pounds of glass plates.

Jim Worthington

[fred_leif]

Bill

 

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You've probably spent some time doing web searches...but I found a

reference to this book which does identify C.S.Fly and many other

early photographers. There was another thread about C.S.Fly and his

nephew Boone which identifies them with Napa, California. The book

seems to be more directly in line with the general interest in old

time photographers, their challenges and results. Following links to

Wyatt Earp items also leads to references to Fly and his wife Mary.

 

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Good Hunting

 

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Fred

 

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Photographers in Arizona, 1850-1920: A History and Directory, by

Jeremy Rowe (Carl Mautz Publishing)

[jnorman1]

indeed, bill - i am greatly interested in the history of photography,

and have collected a very nice library on the subject. i own about

20 fine albumen prints, mostly the work of the major architectural

and topographic photographers of the 19th century, including baldus,

le gray, watkins, and marville, along with many others from europe

(ponti, alinari, fenton, macpherson) and the orient (frith, beato,

sebah, du camp, etc). the name fly does not ring any bells from my

readings, and i just browsed through mayb 10 or 12 of my principal

references and did not turn up his name. so his significance may be

more on a local level, and your best bet might be to contact the

state historical society and talk to the photographs librarian.

[tim_atherton2]

Well,

 

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This thread prompted me to re-watch "Tombstone"

 

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In Kurt Russell's western revisionist view of things, Fly's Photo

Studio sure get shot up a bit at the OK Corral. There is also a scene

of Earp's love interest having a boudoir photograph taken by Fly!

 

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So I guess the filmakers certainly heard of him.

 

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Tim A

 

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PS, if you are going to take up a rephotographic project of old

western photographs, you might need to get one of those Sam Elliott

type moustaches though...

[pat_kearns1]

Bill,

If you are a photographer of the desert then you need to take a trip

to Tombstone, AZ. Camilis S. Fly had a studio in Tombstone near the

OK Coral. It has been restored with many of his famous photographs

in the surrounding area on exhibit. Fly accompanied the US Calvary

to photograph the capture of Geronimo, his son Chappo Geronimo and

the warriors he led in battle against the settlers of the West.

Gernimo & his warriors were then imprisoned at Ft. Pickens on Santa

Rosa Island near Pensacola Fl. Many of the indians died there due to

the harsh climate and were moved to Mt. Vernon, AL where it was a

little milder. Geronimo and the surviving indians were later

returned to reservations in the West. Chappo Geronimo died at Mr.

Vernon and is now buried in a National Military Cemetary in Mobile,

AL. Fly's historical photographs of the surrender of Geronimo are

probably his most famous.

[dan_smith]

Not knowing of one photographer with local or regional fame is not a

crime. Have you heard of Alma, Matthew and Glenn Compton? Where I

live they are the subjects of local fame, being three generations of

photographers covering 100 years in the same studio. They documented

life in Northern Utah well, using large format gear. Yet few outside

our little area have heard of them.

Yes, photography was difficult in the past. If one uses large format

or mammoth camera gear it is still so in spite of our not coating our

own plates these days. The difficulty alone doesn't make the older

work valuable, the images recorded do. Tradition and history will

always be pushed aside as we 'improve' on what has gone before us,

whether a hundred, a thousand or even fifty years ago. Name the first

ten astronauts to orbit the earth-probably can't do that one either

without looking it up.

Photography is no different. A lot contributed to our modern

techniques and will be forgotten by other than the few who enjoy

looking and researching our past. A tragedy? No, but a sad commentary

on how we value history.

Sadder yet is our history in the making that will be lost by the use

and erasing of so much digital imagery as we save only what is

actually printed in papers, magazines and final images. In the future

we will become known and remembered only for the few images that are

saved. No more contact sheets, negatives and records left in old

boxes in the attics and basements of relatives. A few CD's, zip disks

and fading digital prints the soon disappear. No more newspaper

archives of negatives and contacts to study as the one or two images

used from the digital cameras are the only only ones saved.

We still have the images of the crossing of the West in U.S. History

due to the work of photographers able to leave a legacy in permanent

form. Work valued today even more than when it was first made. In the

future we will have little like this to go back to, a spur to all who

shoot large format in silver and 'alt process' to do your best to

make sure it lasts, whether you remember Fly, Jackson or anyone from

our own past. What does last will eventually be seen just as their

work is now-an anachronism by some and priceless treasures by others.

[stephen_cannon]

Camilus S. Fly is well known as being the only photographer to ever photograph the American Indian "in the field". CS Fly took pictures of Geronimo and his warriors just prior to the end of the Geronimo Campaign. He took many other southwestern photos.

[john_kasaian1]

Bill, I just caught reference to this while checking on the "new answers." I missed your original post, but, FWIW I was stationed at Fort Huachuca AZ, (I could see far off Tombstone from my office) many moons ago and Camilus Fly was a very noteworthy photographer in the U.S. at the time. There is an excellent bio of Doc Holliday, titled The Frontier World of Doc Holliday by Pat Jahns that has some references to Fly(though sadly not in the bibliography or index) I recall reading somewhere an in depth article of Fly's description of the shoot out at the OK Corral, which was next by his Studio on Fremont St. in Tombstone. I applaud your interest in Fly and others who photographed the frontier---I have a few boxes of old prints from the 1880s-1930s, most proudly imprinted with the name of a photographer or studio nobodys heard of, and I'm sure each of those old time photographers could have quite a story to tell since they were, in thier place and time, the visual historians of a developing land. Good Luck!

[robert_o.]

Good information about C.S. Fly available at the Arizona Historical Society, in Tucson, AZ.