Sheep Herding Dogs

[nancy s.]

Does anyone here take photos of working stock dogs? For the uninitiated,

these dogs work sheep and cattle, often at some distance from the handler. At

trials they bring the sheep or cattle through a series of obstacles ending

with a shedding (penning) exercise and (sometimes, depending on the level)

separate one animal from the herd.

 

I have been doing some photography of these Stock handling dogs. I have a

Fuji S2 and an (older) manual focus 80-200 zoom as well as a 105 mm lens that

has been ai'd. I have taken photos with both lenses with the S2 and while

everything is manual, the photos come out fine. I also have an 8008s that

these lenses work on as well.

 

I would like to use Medium format (Mamiya 645e) as I can produce large prints

from the negatives. I have the standard (80mm lens) for the 645e and an 300

mm lens. Is the 300mm lens enough lens for this or should I be looking at

something else if I want to use Medium format to photograph this sport (or the

training sessions)? Of course, a tripod will be in use.

[q.g._de_bakker]

I'd like to see sheep herding dogs. I have never seen sheep do that.<br><br>I'm sorry!<br><br>I'm sorry that i can't really answer your question either.<br>I think a 300 mm lens would already be a bit long. Perhaps not for the distances involved, but such a long lens becomes rather difficult to follow action with and get sharp pictures as well, don't you think?<br>But then, the action starts far away (is it called the "lift"?). And though the dogs run fast, i believe it's best when the sheep don't.<br>So maybe it's not a bad lens to use at all.

[lee_shively]

A 300mm on 645 format is about the equivalent of a 180mm lens on 35mm. If you're now working with a maximum 200mm focal length on 35mm, you'll still be in the ballpark. If the Fuji is a 1.5x/1.6x digital (not familiar with the camera at all), your 200mm is the equivalent of 300-320mm on 35mm format. You're losing a lot of reach.

 

I can't say with any certainty how that will work for you. You'll have to try it and see. Good luck.

[nancy s.]

Very funny Q.G.! Photos of the Lift are difficult unless you are setting the stock out (I have been doing this). However, if you are setting out stock you don't have time for photos!

 

Sometimes the sheep DO try to herd the dogs.. they will stamp their feet and (on occiasion) charge. Often they get punished for this when the dog does a grip and, sometimes, the grip is not points off! Depends on how misbehaving that sheep is!

 

The Fuji does have a crop factor. I really dislike that crop and I hate post processing images so I want to get away from digital. I really want to see what I get with the MF and the 300 lens. The thing is the lens is a bit dark and it may be just a tad short.. but that will depend on the trial location and the distances being run out.

 

The best photos are usually of the dog close in to the sheep, so either stopped and ready or doing a walk up.. and the sheep are usually not running at that point, thought they may be moving forward.<div></div>

[nancy s.]

This was also taken with a P&S... It was a work day, not a day for doing proper photos so the P&S camera.. not the MF.

 

I want to get the same sort of photos but with MF and the ability to make Over the Fire Place prints.<div></div>

[shadowfox]

Nancy, sounds like exciting (excited ??) subjects :)

 

Based on the requirement, I agree with you that 6x4.5 is the right format. Look for a used autofocus 645 from Mamiya or Pentax.

 

Lens-wise, I'd sell the standard lens and get a wide-angle (65mm or wider). Don't underestimate wide-angle, it will open up possibilities to make powerful closeups and/or expansive landscape-ish shots.

 

For tele, I think 300 is fine, remember, on MF, 300 is not a long telephoto.

[nancy s.]

Thanks. The issue I have with the longer MF glass it is gets dark QUICK. Or you can spend a LOT of money.. and spending a lot of money isn't going to happen at this juncture.

 

Getting close to the subjects is not an option... even if your dog is running. You stay at a post and anyone else on the field would be possible interference with the run.

 

While wide angle (like a 55mm) would be nice to have, it would have extremely limited use at one of these trials except for setting out the sheep and the dog coming to do a lift.. and then ONLY if I am right there (and often I am not since one dog and handler work the sheep out to where the lift takes place and waits for the competition dog to arrive and take over the sheep.. and by then I am back at the pen working to line up the next three groups).

 

I was actually thinking that I might want an longer lens.. not a wider one.. but I wonder how I would stay with the action. Then I was thinking Zoom but I am not sure how good that would be.

 

I will say the sport is fascinating and most of the winning dogs work daily on a farm so this is just more of what they do anyway. I had a dairy farm for 20 years and I had a cattle dog who worked but my training of said dog was sketchy and made up as I went. Worked for me but no where near the precision of these dogs.

 

sooo.. back to the learning curve and part of that is working at the trials and watching the good ones go off. Currently my dog is in early stages of training and one day I hope to have a competitor (tho my dog is bred for tending, not for the precision work that these dogs do).

[gary_watson]

Lots of sheep dog trials around eastern Ontario where the land is crappy and the sheep plentiful. I found that a 300/2.8 is near-perfect for border collies--lotsa speed and shallow DOF. The problem is always that the dogs are too far away or moving at odd angles. Still, the fast 300 might help. Medium format might work best for sideline shots of dogs resting or otherwise not being their frenetic selves. Problem with medium format is shallow DOF at wide apertures to get faster shutter speed--not a recipe for a high "keeper" ratio.A tripod with a slow 300 won't help much unless the dogs are stationary long enough for you to find, frame, and focus them.

[nancy s.]

Thanks Gary. That is what I was afraid of. I was setting out stock yesterday and could have gotten some nice shots... BUT the back ground was filled with this BLUE TARP at the exhaust pen. Still... some nice opportunities for getting the lift.

 

Issue would be slow shutter speed for MF and motion blur.

 

Well, this weekend I am going to a training session and will take photos if the weather allows for it. We will see what I get there. If I can get it figured out I will post some images.