Stupid to buy 6008AF?

[thsch]

Hi,

 

I've got a friend who has an 6006. I borrowed it once, and shot some slides. He's also got an Epson V750

pro scanner, which we used to scan them at 6400dpi. The detail was amazing! After resising them down

to 5000x5000 (160MP to 25MB) and added a bit of sharpening, the pictures really blew my socks off. I'd

like to go mediumformat for fine art and landscape, but should I just get a cheap 2. hand manaul fokus

600X with a lens or go for the 6998AF model? At this time, I use a D200 with a 85mm f/1.4 for portraits,

and the result is phenomenol - espcieally at f/1.4. The nikon is my moneymaker, but I think I'd like to do

some portraits with a 6x6 too (AF would be nice for that). Should I keep doing my portrait stuff on my

D200 (very convinient workflow with instant files for the clients), and just go manual on landscape and

fine arts? I dont like doing landscape with my D200, because when the sun sets, the small viewfinder is a

pain to look through.

 

Any ideas or anyone who's had the same dilemma?

 

Thank

Thomas Schreiber

 

my photoblog: http://thsch.com

[wai_leong_lee]

That's like asking if your first car should be a Porsche.

 

If you're not into medium format yet, I'd suggest not blowing $10k on your first purchase. Like cars, one should take time to learn the ropes first.

[marek_fogiel]

I think if you want to go into the MF for the quality, your first purchase should be a good scanner, like Nikon CS9000 or Imacon or at least Minolta Dimage Multi Pro+ scanhancer. I have both the Epson V750 and CS 9000, and the difference shows, both in terms of quality and scanning speed. Secondarily, the main advantage of MF film, in my opinion is with the B&W, if you want to shoot colour landscape, you would probably be better off with a larger negative, a 6x9 or at least a 6x7 camera like the Mamiya 7 will make your D200 shots pale, if scanned well. Keep it in mind that MF is mainly a tripod affair, if you want just to dabble without pretending too much about the lens choice, the ideal rig is a good old Rolleiflex.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

I agree with Marek - buy a good film scanner first.

 

There are many fine choices that are less expensive than Rollei. Bronica made excellent cameras - and all have leaf shutters that will flash sync at any shutter speed. You can get started with a Bronica ETRSi for well under $500. Or go with an SQ-series system for 6x6, or a GS-1 for 6x7.

 

Mamiya makes fine cameras, too. Either the 6x7 RB or RZ systems have leaf shutters, bellows focusing, and revolving backs. They are big and heavy, though.

 

Pentax also has some excellent cameras - but they use focal plane shutters and have really slow sync speeds. Nice lenses, though.

[andresainderichin]

Hi Thomas, For me, MF is a slower affair anyway: it's mainly tripod stuff, it's more deliberate,

you only got 12 exposures on a roll... so AF doesn't make so much sense. Plus, I find I play

much more with depth of field anyway, so AF isn't necessarily meaningful. I don't know

Rollei, just that I've seen the gear is expensive. Why don't you look at Bronica or Hasselblad?

There is much more stuff out there. Good luck. André

[mike_earussi1]

As good as the Rollei and Zeiss/Schneider lenses are, a good quality 6x7 (for probably 1/4 of the price of the Rollei if its Pentax or RB/RZ) will beat a 645/6x6 every time, as it has twice the film area--and it really shows.

[david_schwartz6]

6x7 may have twice the area as 6x4.5, but not 6x6. Rolleis and Hassy's simply cannot be beaten by any 6x7 -- I use Mamiya 7ii's frequently, and the image quality is as good but NOT better. In the end, the choice of a MF is very personal, and has to do with the feel of the camera, the view through the viewfinder, the weight and heft of the camera, the system components and flexibility, reliance on electronics, availability of spare parts and repairs -- etc etc etc. I would suggest going to a rental shop and trying a few out before deciding. If you are not near a rental shop, go to a used camera shop and let the m show you what they have -- you will see huge differences, and I am sure you will find one that is right for you.

[jean-louis llech]

Mike, things are not so simple. And that's a bit aberrant. for two reasons :<br>

First, a 6x7 never had twice the area of a 6x6 or even a 645. The respective formats are 56x69.5, 56x56 and 56x41.5.<br>

Thus, the 6x6 is about 80 per cent of the 6x7 film area, and the 645 is 60 per cent. How did you calculate "twice" ?<br>

Second, lens quality, film flatness and lack of vibrations are three very important conditions for the highest quality of pictures. Film format is only one part of the problem.<br>

Some lenses are under the average, some other are excellent. Some rollfilm holders or cameras have a poor film flatness. Some cameras have important vibrations, and handheld pictures at slow speed are sometimes blurry.<br>

Choosing a camera system is a very delicate balance exercise and cannot be summarized only by film format.<br>

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

And going to 4x5 will blow MF out of the water. It comes down to trade-offs. Most 645 systems are fairly light and portable. And they are a huge improvement over 35mm. As for 6x6 - it's the same size as 645 unless you print square. Yes, 6x7 gets you more real estate, along with a bigger and heavier system (unless you are willing to spend for a Mamiya 7). But it only matters if you're willing to have the camera with you. So for studio work (or if you're big and brawny0, get a 6x7 system. If you want to carry, 645 or 6x6 makes a lot of sense.

[richard_fateman]

Since you like the Rollei, why don't you just buy a (used) 6006? And a 150mm lens. Maybe just borrow your friend's camera.

 

I don't see an advantage to the (quite pricey) AF for portraits, unless you have a problem focusing with your own eyesight, or you are perhaps taking pictures of children who cannot sit still.

[d_purdy]

I agree with the 4x5 suggestion. If you are willing to lug that heavy a camera with 2 or 3

lenses, why not instead get a wood field with a carbon fiber tripod a few lenses and shoot

ready loads.

[jeffrypittman]

You'll get opinions on both sides (all valid and very personal) of this question. I'm a Rollei

6008AF user and I love the sytem. If you buy one I don't think you will find any reason to be

disappointed in the results. It's an amazing platform with great glass, metering, accessories,

etc. The cost is crazy high. Any time I buy glass for my 35mm system (even the best APO

glass) it seems such a bargain by comparison. However, if the price doesn't scare you

away...the Rollei system is terrific. If you buy the lenses second hand, you will save a little

money and they hold their value very well. Still, an expensive system to start with. A TLR,

6008i (which can be purchased really cheap now) is a much less expensive way to start into

MF.

[mskovacs]

I don't necessarily agree that going to LF always results in a real world increase in the image quality.

 

My MF Zeiss lenses have double the resolution (or more) of my LF lenses. The depth of field difficulties and long exposures make subject movement a real problem in the field with LF. I find 10% of the days I am out with my MF rig that I could use a 4x5 camera, coming from the perspective of a nature photographer.

 

But coming back to the root of this question. You don't need AF, auto exposure, all those crutches to shoot a MF camera. For portrait work, you'll probably be happier with the digital. Its just such an advantage to be able to see the results in real time. Unless you're talking about professional models, making people look good can cost a lot of money in film!

[l_a_k_h_i_n_d_e_r]

My suspicion is you are happy with the results of a 6x6 negative. And you could get those from a Rollei TLR or SLR. (Or from other brands..); A MF camera would not be able to match the ease of usage of a D200.

 

There is nothing stupid about buying a 6008AF. (It would be stupid to however not use it to its fullest potential, particularly given the advantages of a digital camera that you have.)

 

I agree with Marek above. Get a good scanner first. And a good tripod (if not already).

 

However do not let this discussion slide you towards bigger and bigger formats. You will suddenly find yourself in 4x5 forum ;-)

[russ_britt3]

Get what you want.....you will not be happy with anything else. If you buy something else you will always question your purchase.....and spend more in the end trading up. But if you are not sure of what you want.....try something cheaper like a twin lens Rollie. And find out what you like......I like Hasseys....but you may be happier with something else....you decide.

[graham_mitchell]

The Rollei 6008 AF is a fine camera for film, with great metering and autoexposure modes which make it a pleasure to use. You can also add auto-focus lenses if you need to. The lenses are excellent. You have a large focus screen with 3 viewfinder options and many other accessories. In fact it would be my first choice as a medium format film camera, if that's what you really need.

[User_503771]

A friend of mine just got into medium format after long experience with 35mm. He bought two cameras a few weeks apart.

 

He didn't know exactly what he wanted, so he went to the local Calumet store (here in Los Angeles) and rented cameras for periods from a weekend to a week at a time. He shot as much with each one as he could get time for.

 

First he got a 645 camera with one lens; then he got a 6x7 with one lens. He loves them both. He hunted down and got terrific deals on each one, new in box with warranty.

 

But the important thing for him was patient testing of each model that interested him -- he had a lot of fun and learned a lot in the process.

 

True story!

 

I think that over time he'll probably build up his lens "collection" in the same way -- by renting and trying-out. Then he'll know for sure, and end up happy with what he has.

 

In contrast, I've always just found inexpensive used examples of what I got interested in and went out and "burned up the film". More haphazard and occasionally I've made some moderately expensive "mistakes" in my purchases -- but I've always learned something from the experience....

 

I admire my friend's approach!

 

Hope this helps.

[john_banister1]

If I correctly understand that you're asking about the difference between manual focus 6000 series and 6008AF, you may prefer not to buy 6008AF for the AF. The 6008AF focusing gets you in the ballpark, but it's sometimes a gamble as to whether or not it gets the focus just right. When it's successful it's very successful, but sometimes it seems to have different goals than those of the camera operator. Personally, I like the 6008i better than the 6006 for a manual focus 6000 series Rollei. There's a thread about the differences between 6008i and 6008AF <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00IuFY">here</a> and <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00GpeS">this</a> one might also be of interest to you.

[dale_edward]

Thomas,

 

Yes, I think you'd be happy with the Rollei 6008 platform. A 50mm 2.8 Schneider Super Angulon, a Carl Zeiss 110mm 2.0 Planar, and a 180mm 2.8 Schneider Tele Xenar lens will put you on the road to making some fantastic images with rich contrast and elegant bokeh. These German lenses do have a different look than compared to their Japanese counterparts. Although, it is with larger sized prints such as 20" x 20" that these characteristics are more evident.

 

If you will be mainly shooting landscapes, portraiture, and fine art, then auto focus is probably not going to be a big issue. A Rollei 6008i Integral, a 6008 Integral 2, or a 6008AF would all suit you just fine. Today, you can get a terrific price on a new 6008i body or kit. Unless you plan to take alot of pictures using a flash with TTL, a 6008i would do fine. The 6008AF kit does come with an 80mm 2.8 Schneider AF lens, and this lens is handy for general purpose action shots.

 

The majority of shots that I take for portraiture is done with a tripod, and if you want to obtain the highest quality or plan to make large prints, tripod mounted is essential.

 

Compared to your Nikon D200, you will probably prefer the images that you can produce with a Rollei 6008. For landscapes, Fuji Velvia will provide excellent results with rich saturated colors. For black and white, Rollei Maco 25 or Efke 25 film will produce extraordinary images.

 

Dale

[jean-louis llech]

Frankly, autofocus is the last think that I would need on a camera.<br>

I absolutely insist on keeping the control of all the parameters : aperture, speed, focus and of course depth of field.<br>

All my cameras have as few electronic as possible, and manual focusing is a part of the pleasure of shooting.<br>

Otherwise I would buy a fully automatic advanced 35mm SLR.<br>

This is only my opinion, and I understand that other people prefer autofocus.

[chromatik]

I dunno Jean-Louis, I admire your purist standpoint, but as a 50-year-old, my eyesight has gotten considerably worse, so I appreciate AF on my humble D40, whether I can exert control over DOF or not. I also happen to own and love my Rolleiflex 6006 with the standard 80/2.8 lens, but there have been occasions where I wished someone (or thing) could step in to do the critical focusing for me. But I agree with you in principle.

 

As far as the OP's question is concerned, debates over formats, brands, etc., tend to go in meaningless circles. One thing that a lot of people *seem* to do is spend beyond their means. That's never good, and you can often find real satisfaction buying a less expensive alternative. If you can afford the 6008AF, then it's not "stupid", necessarily, but you might do just as well spending less.

 

For me, thinking about the image and playing with developer and film combinations is more interesting to me than hardware debates. Right now I'm planning a photo trip to Big Bend and Marfa, Texas. Thinking about the how and why of doing that is a real pleasure. But still, like I said, I love my Rollei.

[edgar_maivel]

...maybe it's wise(?how long)idea to wait for Hy6(film version)

[david_schwartz6]

Edgar -- the Hy6 is probably going to come in at a cool $12,0000 -- certainly the 6008 whichis a beauty will be cheaper....

[edgar_maivel]

Don't get me wrong, the 6008AF excellent tool,

but if you going with db the adapter kit will

cost you pretty amount. Where did you get this price?

The body alone will be ~4300... so it should be around 7k.

Now take price of 6008AF+digital adapter kit and compare

to Hy6 (film version) and see it in long run.

Unless he have a job to do today...

[david_schwartz6]

I saw it at the Rollei booth at the NY PhotoExpo this past weekend. I asked the guy behind the counter what it was priced at -- he said the price has not been finalized, but it would probably be something like $12k -- I was also surprised to see it under the Rollei logo, since other photos have shown it under the Sinar logo.....