EOS 400D

[danny_danbig]

I have bought a canon EOS 400D and totally love it. However I can not get to

show the subject/object I am going to shoot on the LCD display before i shoot.

I allways have to put my eye to the small window and seee my object/subject

thrugh there. It seems like either i dont know how to switch this on or the

camera does not show it at all. Please can someone help me?

[phule]

You can't. The 400D doesn't have Live View. It has a mirror and shutter in front of the sensor until you press the shutter release.

[jcuknz]

You should have bought a pro-sumer like me :-)

[rvalois]

Hi Shipra ...

 

I have recently purchased the 400D (called the XTi here in Canada) and like you, LOVE it!

And that's correct, you can't see the image on the LCD screen and I applaud that loudly. The worst way to take a photograph is to hold the camera at the end of your arms. Totally ridiculous. Any photography course you take will tell you to hold your arms resting on your body to prevent camera shake, legs astride to balance your body, compose your shot and press the shutter button. If you're shooting sports and have to take shots quickly, use a tripod or monopod. Look at all the pros at any sports event whether it be football, hockey, sports car racing, etc ... NOBODY is holding their camera at the end of their arms.

The 400D is a light camera. I purchased a battery pack for better balance and my large hands. But wouldn't you know it, the Nikon D3 and D300 just recently announced - HEAVY cameras even without a battery grip - and I believe a high-end Canon have introduced "Live View" - you can see your image at the end of your arms - WHAT ?! Incredible but true. C'est la vie.

 

Ray

[phule]

<<Any photography course you take will tell you to hold your arms resting on your body to prevent camera shake, legs astride to balance your body, compose your shot and press the shutter button>>

 

Lots of misconceptions are taught as fact. This belief is another one of them.

 

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=17501274

[rvalois]

Hi Rob ...

 

Hmmmmmm ... took a look at the dpreview site you posted. I'm not sure that it was convincing, well, not to me anyhow. As far as fact and fiction, even the manuals for cameras where you can compose your picture with the LCD suggest the "... elbows to body and feet apart stance ...". The P&S I use is the Konica Minolta Z5. My XTi does not have "live view" and the manual obviously recommends the same thing.

When the D300 is availbale for sale, a good test would be to have someone use the camera with a battery grip attached and holding two batteries with the SB-800 mounted on a bracket above the 18mm-55mm f2.8 lens. Let's see how many let's just say "acceptable" shots could be achieved over a period of 15 minutes or so of constant shooting using "live view". I think weight lifting sessions might be in order <[;-0)))))

I currently use a Pentax 645N (MF film) with various lenses, flash unit on a bracket. This camera "feels" similar to the D200 in weight and feel with the heavy Nikon lens mentioned above. Absolutely no way could I use this camera at arm's length. Towards the end of long wedding day shoot, the camera is like a lead weight. Shoot at arms' length ... unthinkable.

 

Ray

[les]

Rob - show me a sharp pic from a camera held at arm length - with a 400mm lens on it (and try not to shoot at 1/8000 sec just to prove the point :>D )

[jobo1]

Rob, did you read the post you linked? It shows the negative impact of mirror slap, nothing more.

 

"What I think is happening is that the classic SLR braced position is slightly more stable than the two hands held out in front. [...] But the [digicam] has an advantage in that it does not have vibrations induced by a flipping mirror. And I suspect this is why it gives us such nice undistorted dots at 1/60 of a second compared to the not quite perfect dots from the [sLR] at the same shutter speed."

[phule]

I very much read the post I linked and I stand by my statement. There is plenty of existing discussion on this.

 

<<Rob - show me a sharp pic from a camera held at arm length - with a 400mm lens on it (and try not to shoot at 1/8000 sec just to prove the point>>

 

You can't find any photos from any super zoom digital point and shoots? You clearly need to work on your search techniques.

 

<<Towards the end of long wedding day shoot, the camera is like a lead weight. Shoot at arms' length ... unthinkable.>>

 

Time was never a factor included in the original statement. My point here, which so many seem to have missed, is that it is FALSE to say that EVERY camera is ALWAYS more stable against your face. Aside from the fact that it completely ignores the existence of waist-level finders, it is these blanket statements that fail to take into account things like mirrors, IS, camera weight, body strength, shutter speed, breathing, and the very basic idea of /practice/ to capture images.

 

The /fact/ is that for many people, using different techniques with different cameras in different situations /still/ produce wonderful images. How many sports shooters have you seen, in a crowd around a coach or player, shoot with their very heavy SLRs above there heads /after/ shooting a long game? And how many of us have seen images in magazines or the newspaper of these coaches from that very perspective?

 

You are a fool if you believe the only way to create compelling (and sharp) images is to keep the camera held against your face.

[rvalois]

Hi Rob ...

 

If you read my post carefully, you'll note that I am addressing the recent introduction of "live view" specfically on heavy cameras: D3 and D300. I really don't believe that these will work well at arm's length.

 

By the way, I've taken EXCELLENT shots at arm's length with my Konica Minolta (12x optical) super-zoom. I would not be so inclined even with my XTi, battery grip and flash unit ... not to mention the effect of bright sunlight on the LCD screen.

 

Hey shipra, you sure started an interesting thread <[;-0)))

 

And come on Rob, no need to call anyone a fool. This is just a discussion.

 

Ray

[phule]

fool (noun): "One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding."

 

I wasn't directing my comments to anyone in particular. I truly believe it foolish to assume that using a camera without pressing it to your face is the only stable way to shoot.

 

I read your post, Raymond. And you applied a very general statement to a very specific situation. So what? Just because /you/ can't do something (in this case shoot a DSLR away from your face) doesn't mean someone else can't.

 

Do not assume here that I am advocating all Live View DSLRs be shot away from the face. The only situation in which I personally would ever need Live View in a DSLR would be in a studio. (Did you consider a tripod & studio situation when you passed judgment on Live View?)

 

I am simply pointing out that vast and sweeping generalizations are not a basis for fact.

[sdsalyer]

Shipra,

<p />

The idea behind SLR cameras is that you use the viewfinder to look <i>optically</i> through the lens to see what it sees, not a digital recreation of that on an LCD screen. If this isn't right for you, perhaps you should sell the XTi and pick up a nice "SLR-like" camera such as the PowerShot S5. :)

[rvalois]

Hi Rob ...

 

On a tripod in a studio environment ... you got me, and I must admit that I had not considered the situation. Looks like I must have been focussing on wedding shoots thinking that "live view" would be more or less useless on a heavy DSLR.

 

And Rob, please chill out ... no need to look up dictionary definitions. I admit that I stand corrected. Ever since Nikon announced "live view" I simply could not see any use for the feature. Now I do thanks to your post.

 

Ray

[phule]

Raymond,

 

I was just trying to indicate precisely what I mean. For all this discussion, I let the intended impact of a word get away from me. I am not calling anyone here a fool. I'm calling the generalization foolish.

[les]

"I'm calling the generalization foolish."

 

Well, in this case I will attempt another generalization - here it goes:

 

"Put the bloody thing on a good heavy tripod, apply mirror lockup, use cable release - and you are set."

[richard_oleson]

I'm not going to join in the argument, but log me as among those who prefer not to wave my camera at arm's length for best results.

[phule]

The only thing being waved is the flag of misunderstanding.

[rvalois]

Hi Rob ...

 

You wrote "...I let the intended impact of a word get away from me ...".

Been there, done that ... not a problem.

 

Ray

[jcuknz]

Way back I discovered that bent arms act as a simple form of stabilisation so while conventional thinking suggests it is better to hold camera to one's eye this is just one of the popular myths currently in vogue amongst those who just follow the pack without thinking and working it out for themselves as Jay Turberville has done. I remember Larry Bolch once writing that he found it easier to get a sharp shot when shooting at 1/10 second than at say 1/25th.

[jcuknz]

Thousands if not millions of folk shoot with the camera away from their heads including professionals .. it is one of the advances in camera design that DSLRs have yet to catch up with .. though personally I prefer to use the EVF when I can but that is just habit from decades of working with a SLR and not knowing any better :-)

[jcuknz]

I am simply waiting for DSLR desoign to catch up with pro-sumers and give me a combined/selectable Viewfinder cum EVF which gives me the advantages of the EVF to display the shot I have just taken along with overlaid information if I want it with the obvious and well acknowledged advanatge of the VF with regard to focusing and seeing reality rather than a refreshed image.

 

It is coming I think with the Panasonic L10 giving us live preview on the LCD ... now all they have to do is interface it with a VF and DSLR will have caught up with pro-sumers. :-)

[fmueller]

"What I think is happening is that the classic SLR braced position is slightly more stable than the two hands held out in front. This is most clearly indicated by the slowest shutter speed results."

 

That citation from the 'test' Rob linked to sums it up. A firm stance when using a camera is important, especially when you are using slow shutter speeds. How could that not be so?

 

"I truly believe it foolish to assume that using a camera without pressing it to your face is the only stable way to shoot."

 

I'll give you that one. I have been shooting SLRs since the 1980s, and have always made sure to adopt a firm stance when pressing the shutter, or even to brace myself when possible. It makes a huge difference - especially at slow speeds. However, since I am wearing glasses and it would be too cumbersome to take them off for every shot, I have never been able to press the camera against my face. There are other ways to adopt a firm stance!

 

"Put the bloody thing on a good heavy tripod, apply mirror lockup, use cable release - and you are set."

 

That isn't necessarily the best solution when working with ultra long lenses. Google 'long lens technique' and be amazed by the excellent articles that are available on that subject - which don't just recommend a heavy tripod, MLU and a cable release!

 

"I am simply waiting for DSLR desoign to catch up with pro-sumers and give me a combined/selectable Viewfinder cum EVF"

 

Well, the term "catching up" is somewhat preposterous here, and there are obvious technical difficulties inherent in the design of a SLR camera which make the design of an electronic viewfinder less than straight forward. However, since an electronic viewfinder would be nice for a small minority of shots where it is inconvenient or impossible to look through the regular viewfinder, Canon for one is offering life-view as a feature in it's latest DSLRs like the 40D. I am less familiar with other manufacturers. It's a nice feature but will never be a critical feature for most DSLR users.

[jcuknz]

It is not in the slightest way preposterous becuase if I had the R&D facilties of any of the major outfits I could produce a DSLR with pre-view in the viewfinder, with a switched option for those who prefer to view the current way. It is quite likely that it has already been developed, becuase I have been suggesting it for years on this and other forums, but we have not seen it becuase of the conservative thinking of DSLR users ... tunnel vision is one name for it.

 

I was using the basis of my design concept back in the sixties. Using a pellicule [partially silvered mirror] with today's electronics the resulting signal amplified to equal the original VF strength etc etc. It could well be the answert to those who complain about dark/poor viewfinders and could automatically adjust the way my pro-sumer EVFs do.

 

The Panasonic L10 I gather has some system for putting preview on the LCD but I have not seen it as yet .. not that I want to preview on the LCD becuase I much preview looking through a VF/EVF ... old habits die hard :-)