Frustrated

[jamie_thomas]

I have run into this problem a few times, but was always able to talk them into letting me shoot anyway. I always make the preacher think I?m on their side, that I totally understand how some photographers, are to distracting, and I insure them that I am not. I promise them I won?t use flash and will keep my distance. With that said, I disagree with the statement that they run the show. The B/G runs the show. Make them aware about how sometime the preacher, might have restrictions, and hopefully they can fix the problem before the wedding. I agree with you, it?s frustrating, you would think that it?s them getting married. I some times wonder if their photographer had restrictions at their wedding. I just wish I could tell them how to do there job for once. LOL!

[picturesque]

It's not normal for preachers to have such restrictions at an outdoor country club wedding, but anything is possible. Short of nicely asking the officiant why he or she has such restrictions, in hopes of convincing them otherwise, or bargaining with them, you can only comply if nothing works. I have found bargaining sometimes works. Whenever I have such restrictions, I always counter with asking the officiant to remain in robes after the ceremony for re-creations. There have been times where I had to put up not only with restrictions, but after the ceremony, the officiant ducks out immediately, leaving you with nothing to re-create that involves the officiant. I know one associate of mine makes it a point to NOT ask the officiant whether there are any restrictions. That way, he does what he wants and can claim to be innocent later. Of course, you run the risk of being singled out during the ceremony or banned from photographing at a ceremony with that officiant again.

[conraderb]

as long as the client understands the rules, that's the way it goes. IF your clients have different understanding of the rules, have the pastor and the clients discuss BEFORE the wedding ceremony.

[frank_skomial]

The preacher can tell a photographer not to shoot, but that usually does not apply to family members and onlookers. They just pull out their little or bigger camera and start flashing, many of them at the same time. What you do then ? - you were told not to...

[g.e._masana]

The clerics, the church assistants, the church musicians, even Igor, who rings the church bells and sweeps up afterwards, can exhibit these attitudes. It must be something in the holy water.

 

Personally, I think it's that clerics really miss the good old days when they wielded power over both kings and peasants and now seek to exert their much weaker authority over people - and the photographer is someone they can peck on. It's a power play. We don't put money in their pocket, and that whole business about treating others as you want to be treated doesn't really govern their lives. They can be nasty and rude but are paid to put on a pious face and preach about love. Hey, as one priest told me, "Look at my hands. No callouses. It's an easy living".

 

The premise they allege is that they wish to preserve the "sanctity of the ceremony", yet they typically permit the camera-wielding guests to click away and roam around, while the only person who's there for the sole contracted purpose of photographing the event has their rules imposed on him or her (because that's the only person they can control, as one priest said to me once. See? I told you it's a power play). Naturally, any number of guests taking flashes and cameras whirring is bound to be collectively more intrusive than one low key experienced pro photographer who knows what he's doing, but there's usually no reasoning with them when where they're coming from is not about reason.

 

Somehow, I think throwing obstacles at vendors carrying out their assignments and/or harassing them probably violates labor laws and "right to work" laws and civil liberties, and considering they permit friends and family to freely shoot but prohibit the same courtesy to photographers, it's certainly a discriminatory action at the least, and I'd love to engage an attorney to start a class action suit against the Vatican and we'd then all be able to retire comfortably and those who follow in our footsteps will no longer have to subject themselves to this. But I contacted Ron Kuby about it, and he wasn't interested.

 

One solution is to not introduce yourself at all and act like just another guest at the wedding, and if you must say hello to the cleric, don't tell them what you plan to do, just hear them out as they recite the "riot act" to you, try not to step on their toes in an obvious way. And for shots like the couple getting misty eyed during the ceremony, sit in a pew somewhere among the guests, shoot with available light as much as you can and stay real low key. It'll all be over in an hour. And have empathy for those whose behavior is offensive and immature. If you weren't getting any, you'd probably be an irritable grouch too.

[kiva]

I had to laugh reading your post G. E.

 

The truth is that it's probably what most of us want to say but don't for fear of being flamed by those wiser than us (and, they've found out if the clergy limits them it just makes their life easier i.e. they don't have to move around as much and they get to take less photos! Yikes! ... there, I said it; may the throwing of stones begin! btw, I hope to be in this group of photographers one day, and that's the sad truth too!).

 

Anyway, the photo below is from a recent wedding. I talked with this official at the rehearsal and asked his rules of engagement. I was ok with what he wanted and actually shot the rehearsal in that manner; not a whisper, all was ok and that's what he said to me.

 

Then, on the wedding day, I shot the same set of photos from the same locations in the same manner. But, this time he turned to me, and growled the word "nuisance" ... I was shocked and backed away After taking this photo of him saying the word a second time since I didn't hear him the first time. At this point the bride is coming down the aisle with her father and the only "MUST-HAVE" photo that the bride wanted was THIS ONE. So, since I'd done it before at rehearsal and got the approval of the "Father" I stepped back to the aisle and got the photo of the Bride and her Father and the look on the grooms face.

 

If this official "Father" would have told me not to take aisle shots from the front then I'd honestly been ok with it but to change his mind just as the bride is coming down the aisle was unfair.

 

This "Father" later scolded me for my behavior during the formals because "I could hear your voice all around the room!" I'm still trying to figure out how to not be heard in this type of acoustical environment while getting family members through the formals .. I just shook my head in amazement and said nothing ...later I found out he had not done a wedding for over three years and seldom before that at a different church: I wonder why?

 

Anyway, my wife and I still laugh about this. I can also say that I've not had even a hint of a problem at any other wedding; total respect for the limitations and even would not fire my flash when the guests went crazy and fired flash and even stood up.

 

Here's the exact moment he growled and said: "Nuisance". Yup, he actually said it, nay, growled it ... he probably thought I would divine the meaning and immediately fall into line. I got my Pre-approved photos and stepped aside.

 

I'd consider myself a human that's in touch with his spiritual domain; the time with this robed person "felt" different.

 

Sometimes we just have to chuckle and move forward. Sometimes it's not us but it could a Troubled individual that should be looking for another career other than sanctifying marriage! "NUISANCE!"<div></div>

[jimstrutz]

Yeah, don't ya just hate all them preacher types. Controlling, fear mongering, pietists - the whole lot of 'em. Their god must be mean too. :)

 

I wonder if God is meaner on the east coast than the west? People seem to stuff him into too much formal attire over there. Would make me grumpy too. The churches I've shot in around here seem mostly to have really nice people running things, and are very reasonable. Although there was that one church lady at First...

[dawn_kelly]

I'm going up against a strict set of rules in a wedding later today. No flash and prefer I be on the balcony. I have told the B&G that this limits my ability, but I also asked them if the audience will have to go by the same rules, and that if they don't have to then I won't either in the most respectful manner that I can. I did shoot one wedding where I wasn't allowed past the 5th or 6th row from the back, and wasn't allowed to have shots of the alters on both sides of the platform in any of my shots.

 

I did attend one wedding as a guest where the photographer, during the ring exchange for a hand-close-up shot, got between the B&G and the minister, actaully pushing the Minister out of the way a bit with her back. That is such a foolish thing to do. Ring exchange can be easily recreated later, especially if it is a close up hand only shot.