d80 strobe sync problem...

[skiphunt]

I took my d80 on a shoot yesterday along with my Elinchrom strobes. Unfortunately, I forgot to bring my

pc-sync adaptor so I couldn't hardwire my strobes to the camera. However, I did bring my SB800 and

SB600 with me. I thought I could trigger the SB strobes in commander mode and use them to fire the

slaves on the Elinchroms. They did indeed all fire, but I wasn't getting ANYTHING in the exposure from the

Elinchroms.... as if they weren't syncing properly.

 

Luckily, I had plently of scrims and such to get what I was after with just the SB strobes, but how come I

got no sync from the Elinchroms? What did I do wrong?

 

How can you setup your SB strobes to fire remotely via commander mode AND get them to trigger other

strobes and all be in-sync?

 

 

Skip Hunt

Austin, Texas

http://www.skiphuntphotography.com

[skiphunt]

So... if you want to use Elinchrom slaved studio strobes AND use a couple Nikon remote

flashes like the SB800 and SB600 AND you want to fire them all from the on-board flash

via commander mode wirelessly... how would you do that?

 

I wanted to just use one Elinchrom unit as my main wash of light, and use the SB

speedlights for fill and accent because I can control their output from the menu.. and fire

them via the onboard flash without anything being added by the onboard flash. So I just

have the main constant and adjust the two SBs and do it all wirelessly.

 

Can this work? If so, how would you go about it?

 

Also, is there a pre-flash in this setup? I have the d80 set for commander mode, have the

on-board flash set at the double-dash so that it doesn't add light to the scene... only fires

the SB speedlghts... but it DOES appear to flash... only it doesn't expose the scene. So

perhaps there's a "pre-flash" that actually triggers the speedlights.. but that there's a

delay so that all that exposes the frame are the speedlights... and that since there's no

delay in the Elinchroms... they're going off prematurely?

 

With all the different settings... slaves.... etc. surely there's a way to do this without having

to get something like a pocketwizard. Or, is there something I can get to put the same

delay in the speedlights... in the Elinchroms?

 

 

Skip Hunt

Austin, Texas

http://www.skiphuntphotography.com

[Jerry_]

What happens, as you found out, the SB-800 sends out a pre-flash to set the exposure __ and that triggered the Elinchom units. When that happens, the moment you take the exposure, the Elinchom units are done providing the light you thought you were going to get. If you can stop the pre-flash (in full manual mode?) and set the SB-800 to 1/32 power, the set-up might work but you would have to experiment some first.

[frank_skomial]

You were trying to use Nikon SB-800/600 flashes in Nikon CLS mode with Elichrom flashes that are not compatible with the Nikon CLS system.

 

You need to gain basic understanding of your equipment. Until you do so, use all flashes in their common mode, like "common denominator", so all flahes will work.

 

Ths common mode for you flashes in Manual mode, so SB flashes will trigger Elichroms during exposure time. (not during pre-flash time when the shutter is closed).

 

Search photo.net, as that was explaine many times.

[skiphunt]

Frank... thanks for stating the obvious!!!! ;-) What do you think I'm doing with this post?

 

I recall dealing with this before.. and it seems like the only way I could get it to work was

putting the Speedlights in SU-4 mode... manually setting the output on each... dialing

down the onboard flash to something like 1/32 power so that it provided an insignificant

amount of light, but enough to fire the speedlights AND Elinchrom slaved strobes. BUT,

this doesn't allow me to control the output of the Speedlights remotely from the camera. I

have to take a few test shots... then go manually set the output on each speedlight and

Elinchrom slave... shoot another test.. re-adjust manually. etc.

 

Is there no way to mix non i-TTL strobes with the speedlights in commander mode so that

I can just have my main non-iTTL strobe at a constant, and adjust the speedlight output

remotely?

[Matt Laur]

Skip: No, no way to mix. The whole point is that for the more sophisticated communication to take place between the camera and the Nikon strobes, there has to be some pre-exposure chatter (in the form of light, which will always pre-maturely trip your monolights).

[skiphunt]

Matt, thanks for a straight no-nonsense answer. Guess I'll have to mix the old-school way in

SU-4 mode instead. Or, just buy more Speedlights. ;-)

[frank_skomial]

"Skip: No, no way to mix."

 

... and...

 

"Is there no way to mix non i-TTL strobes with the speedlights in commander mode so that I can just have my main non-iTTL strobe at a constant, and adjust the speedlight output remotely?"

 

Yes, there is a way to mix, you just have to know how to, and that was what I had in mind...not to offend you. This depends how much efforts you are willing to spend on learning and experimenting.

 

- yes ther is a way or 2 ways, but your experimentation is essential until you get experience with what your flashes can do and how SB compares to Alichroms. Initial use of a flash meter in your studio could help.

 

The method described below works great also in a more dynamically changing environment like in a church, a dance hall, etc. where enormous diffused lighting is needed. In a studio when hardly anything changes, once you setup manual exposure, you can fire that way forever.

 

You can still use SB-800 in Nikon CLS mode, and trigger your Elichrom flashes during actual exposure time, but you need to make sure that Elichrom does not overpower SB flashes, so use Elichrom for ambient flash lighting, sides, back, diffused from ceiling, walls, panels, etc, your invention...

 

Atually I used 2 1800 WattSeconds strobes fired remotely via Pocket Wizards, and use the SB-800 and the camera in CLS mode providing the main lighting in churches. The strobes had no chance to overpower SB-800 being located farther away, and not directing any spot lighting. The results were much better than with just one or two SB-800 flashes alone.

 

Flash exposure determination for SB-800 in CLS happens without consideration of any light source from Elichrom, so you are responsible for proper setting on Elichroms - make sure they are not the main or dominant source of light, or else Elichrom will over expose with more power than the SB and camera has determined during pre-flashes time in the CLS mode.

 

The way to do it is via a PC sync cable connection from SB-800 pc sync socket on the side of the SB-800 body. (SB-600 perhaps has no socket)

 

Better yet, use a Pocket Wizard transmitter connected to this SB-800 socket while SB-800 sits in camera hot shoe, and let Pocket Wizard trigger remotely via radio your Elichrm flashes connected to a Pocket Wizard receiver. This is the best method of using SB and Elichroms, but more expensive than PC sync wires. Wires are OK perhaps in your studio, but not acceptable in churches, reception halls, etc.

 

The SB-800 side socket produces one trigger signal (the "short circuit") only once during actual exposure time, and ignores all the pre-flases. SB-800 must be NOT in remote mode as that disables the socket, but when SB-800 sits in camera how shoe, perhaps nobody with sound mind would program it as a remote flash, if that is even possible.

 

Using plain optical slaves, that possibly are built into your studio flashes, would not trigger properly, as CLS preflashes would spoil the fun.

 

Optical triggering is supposedly possible with special "digital" optical triggers, that are capable to recognize pre-flases and ignore them, and only trigger remote flash on the main trigger signal during actual exposure time. I tried a "Digital" optical trigger supposedly designed for Nikon CLS, but it did not work, while others, and vendors claim success.

[skiphunt]

Frank... thanks for the detailed explanation.. much appreciated. I think I'll either just get used

to using all in manual mode... or look into digital slaves. Looks like Elinchrom has a radio

solution that might work as well.

[Ray House]

I am a complete novice in respect to the issues of this post... however, would it be possible to just use the (FV)lock mode (CS-16 funtion button) which will fire the preflashes to estimate exposure, then when the exposure is made no preflashes are emitted allowing the slaves to be in sync?

[frank_skomial]

Answer to Ray's questiom: Yes. Problem is that the studio strobes will also be discharged during pre-flash, and second picture taking with FV loc will not happen instantly. It will work well for static subjects.

[skiphunt]

I've been trying to get this FV lock method to work for about 2hrs now. Read the manual

for the SB800, D80, and SB600 (just in case someone wants to chime in and tell me to

learn my own equipment by reading the manual). And this just isn't working. I've got my

function button set for FV Lock. My SBs are in Remote mode. My elinchrom has it's built-in

slave. I've got my commander mode set with the onboard flash as double-dash, I've tried

my SBs set via the commander mode menu at TTL, and I've tried as manual. I hit the

function button.. there's a pre-flash that fires the SBs AND the elinchrom. Then I take the

shot. Still only getting light from the SBs and nothing from the elinchrom. It's definitely

firing, just not in-sync. Every now and then there'll be exposure from the elinchroms too,

but more often than not.. it just doesn't work.

 

What am I doing wrong?