Technikarden45

[robin_coutts]

Please could you advise me about the main differences between the older and newer models of the Technikarden 45 /45s and the value of the changes. I have a chance of buying the older model.

 

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Many thanks

 

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Robin

[bob_salomon]

1: detents for tilt and swings front and rear on S.

2: front and rear L same width on S.

3: L standards are made from two straight pieces and joined

with a block to make the L on the S. On the older version it is a

straight extrusion bent into a right angle.

The S replaced the TK in 1992.

[rob_tucher]

I have the older model. I love it and would never part with it.

I would buy one in any other format if they made it. I've bid on

the 6x24 conversion that comes up every now and again on Ebay. That

said, I would absolutely love the 45S model because it is so much

easier to set up and start a shoot with at zero for all movements,

and the lighter L standard in the front of the 45 is easier to bend

in an accident (I did and it cost me). Someday I'll buy one and keep

my 45 as a backup.

[joachim_hildebrand]

I would go for the older model! It is lighter, has some more cm

extension and has markings for vertikal swings that go up to 30

degrees, not only to 15 degrees, like the "s". If You need very big

movements You can turn the TK to one side (90 degrees) which works

very well. The only restriction will then be the bellows and of

course Your lens. But the 15 degree scale ist definitely not enough

when using horizonzal Scheimpflug with the turned TK in combination

with the Rodenstock calculator. BTW it is difficult to get an used TK

and even more difficult to get an used TKs. So go Ahead if the price

is okay! You will love that camera.

 

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Good luck!

[bob_salomon]

"I would buy one in any other format if they made it. I've bid on the

6x24 conversion"

 

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Just as long as you realize that this is not a Linhof product. It

simply uses parts from Linhofs and is made by third parties.

[steve_artz]

Hi Robin,

I've owned both cameras and still own the 45S. I bought both cameras

new. I bought the first camera in 1988 and I was thrilled. Opening/

closing is easy with practice. The controls, strange at first, quickly

become familiar. Clever design, compact when folded and very easy to

use.

 

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But - and I'm sure this will generate some response - it just

wasn't very stable. Indoors it was great. Outdoors it was no fun. The

slightest breeze would get it wiggling, even when solidly mounted on a

big Gitzo with the BIG Arca Monoball. Dare I even mention the fact that

a Polaroid 545 back was enough weight to cause the rear to tilt.

You can test this for yourself by centering the bubble levels and

putting a little pressure on the standard.

On those "breezy" days, the bubbles do a little dance!

And yes, this was a new camera with all locks, etc. tight.

I liked it, but sold it, and bought the 45S.

 

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That first model was originally designed as a 2x3" camera, with the 4x5

version being a sort-of afterthought.

 

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There are two main differences between the models; the click-stops on

center and the larger "L" frames (and support hardware).

The click-stops dramatically speed setting up the camera.

Those larger "L" frames noticeably increase the stability.

 

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I've owned my 45S for seven years now and am very happy with it.

It seems to withstand a strong breeze now.

On these pages I've seen a lot of opinions on the Technikardan, but

basically it's a compact camera that can perform many different tasks

easily without having to buy or carry much extra stuff.

 

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A note to Mr. Hildebrand - the scales on my 45S - both tilt and swing

are marked with a range of 28mm......

 

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If you like the Technikardan, spend the extra $$ and get the new one.

[joachim_hildebrand]

A note to Mr. Artz:

 

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Maybe You are a lucky guy an have a special version. If You look at

the Linhof website (which recently has been modified) You will see

and read (in German) that the TK "s" has at least now (to my

knowledge always had) vertical swings of 15 degrees (not mm!) on back

and front standart.

 

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Best regards

[bob_salomon]

"Maybe You are a lucky guy an have a special version. If You look

at the Linhof website (which recently has been modified) You will

see and read (in German) that the TK "s" has at least now (to my

knowledge always had) vertical swings of 15 degrees (not mm!)

on back and front standart. "

 

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The TK 23, the TK 45, the TK 23S and the TK 45s all have 360°

of tilt and swing on the front and rear standards.

The tilt scale's length is restricted by the width of the L standard.

but both series in both sizes have tilt and swing limited only by

the bellows.

 

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As for scales only the very first productions of the original TK

cameras did not have fully calibrated rails. These scales are

readily available to any TK owner who does not have calibrated

rails. They are peel and stick and are free for the asking.

 

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All TKs models have the scales.

[joachim_hildebrand]

A note to Mr. Salomon:

 

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In my first thread I described the only by lens and bellows

restricted movements of the Technikardan and pointed out that a 15

degree scale might not be enough in certain cases. Having said this

my second thread was only about the scale (15 or 30 degrees) and not

about any restriction of movements.

 

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Best regards

[rob_tucher]

Yo Steve,

 

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If your TK tilts when you put in a Polaroid back then there is

something wrong and a servicing is in order, I would think. I not

only use a P-back all the time, but built an extension back for my TK

45 out of an old Speed Graphic body coupled to a Kardan-sized board

that fits nicely into the back of the TK. I did this in order to get

more effective bellows draw and to gain a shutter so I could use my

600mm Nikkor barrel lens on the camera. And with all that weight

towards the back my TK holds firm. I just attach the macro bracket

for stability of the rail and shoot away. The camera is astounding

and much prefered over my heavier, bulkier, slower Sinar C.

 

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Hi Bob, yes, I realized that the 6x24cm is an aftermarket

modification. But the camera in any other format makes it all so

tempting. If I could I would modify to 5x7 and 8x10.

[steve_artz]

Hello Rob,

Yo! from NYC....

 

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I specialized in the business of large format and professional

photographic equipment service for almost 12 years, so I'm pretty

clear on the how's and why's of the problem. I've handled quite a few

Technikardans and serviced several as well.

 

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The problem is accentuated with short focal length lenses....

i.e. it will be less obvious with a 600mm but much more obvious with

a 47mm XL.

 

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Even so, I'm quite happy with mine.

Best Wishes,

[jacque_staskon]

I know this is a bit off the original question, that being said. I

have recently sold my beloved Wista Field 4x5 and purchased a used

Technikarden 45s. I have not looked back. The camera is rugged,

lightweight (respectively) and instinctual to work with. After a few

outings the movements and controls are very easy to adjust. I am

quite happy. Now I just need to find a hood for the ground glass and

perhaps a 75mm lens.

[rob_tucher]

Hey Steve,

 

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Maybe I'm not getting this. Where do these TK's tilt? Is it at the

base in some looseness in the rail when locked down or does the P-back

acutally make it tilt at the tilt pivot? I've never gone shorter than

65mm and use the newer, lighter plastic Polaroid backs but have older

metal ones that were never a problem. I can see where my Sinar C

would never tilt, while the TK COULD but doesn't. I must say my heavy

Speed Graphic rig doesn't seem to tilt but as you say, who would know

way out at 600mm+? I recheck my levels just before shooting and I

stay level. I've used my TK professionally for 17 years now and

haven't really noticed a problem. Maybe I'm the lucky one or am not

critical enough.

[bob_salomon]

TH has center tilt.

 

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Only the GT and GTL monorail Linhof cameras have base tilts

and those have 2 tilts for yaw free work, 1 base and 1 center.

[rob_tucher]

Hi Bob, Not talking about base tilt. I was asking if he gets tilting

from the base because of the weight and less-than-tight lock down. Or

wether he gets tilt within the tilt pivot because the Polaroid back is

too tight for the camera. I get neither on mine so I wanted to

understand.

 

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Rob

[bob_salomon2]

He should contact service. He should not be getting a tilt from

the weight.

[david4]

No one has made a strong or compelling case regarding the value of the

changes in the TK45S. The owners of the older version uniformly praise

it as being lighter and more compact. One contributor said that the

TK45 has slightly longer extension than its successor TK45S, a comment

that I suspect is a case of bellows envy. Some contributors mentioned

experiencing the older version slipping out of adjustment when

weighted down by the Polaroid back, but presented no evidence that

this was due to the TK45 design or widespread. I have to acknowledge

that I have experienced the same problem of slippage, especially when

inserting a Polarid back. I thought it might be due to same grime or

other lubricant accumulating between the surfaces that are pressed

together to inhibit movement after I have set the levers. Alternately

I suspect that maybe some spring had weakened with time -- the camera

is nearly 12 years old and shows wear and tear. Bob implied that the

event was rare, unexpected, likely easily remedied, and not a

recognized design flaw. I am curious to know what is the corrective

action that needs to be taken with the TK45 that has a slippage

problem. I find it difficult to understand how the average user would

find the indents on the TK45S preferable to degree markings, but as an

expert, Linhof probably did verify this. I would assume that Linhof

designed enhanced crashproof resistance of the TK45S to deformation in

a quest for engineerng perfection. Our readership can reveal whether

deformation of the TK45 has been a common problem. I experienced this

deformation after my camera crashed to the ground off a cliff. I sent

it to Marflex, Marflex fixed the problem, and I remain a happy camper.

I would appreciate some contribution by Bob as to what is the nature

of the problem and how it arises, that led to enhanced strengthening

of the standards on the TK45S and decision to put in

indents.................................................Regards,

David.....

[bob_salomon2]

David,

 

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The extension on the old and new cameras are identical as are

all other specs save the addition of detents (which were due to

requests from owners and potential owners) and the additional

very slight increase in weight due to the detents and, possibly,

the 3 piece front standard whioh is wider then the one piece

older standard.

 

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If someone experiences slippage it is time to have the camera

serviced. There are no springs.

[joachim_hildebrand]

Bob and David,

 

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apart from scales for swing (ceterum censeo!), detents and 3-piece

standards there are some more slight differences between TK and TKs.

Linhof manuals and brochures provide following data:

 

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TKs TK

2x3 4x5 2x3 4x5

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Length 125 125 95 100

Width 165 215 160 210

Height 210 255 210 260

Weight 2800 g 3000 g 2200 g 2900 g

Extension 340 485 330 510

 

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All measures except weight are in mm.

 

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According to the manual the shortest focal length for TK is 47 mm (at

that time there was no shorter focal length for large format

available). I heard with TKs one could use even the Apo-Grandagon 35

mm (Bob Salomon could confirm that). With some minor modification or

a special recessed lensboard it should also be possible to use TK

with the Apo-Grandagon 35mm or the Super-Angulon XL 38 mm.

 

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If one wants to hike with a 2x3 the differences of weight and size

between TKs and TK can really matter. With 4x5 differences are not

substantial ... except the scales for swings (ceterum censeo!) and

possibly maximum extension if one needs the 25 mm for macro work

and/or long lenses.

 

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Maybe someone knows some more differences ...

 

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Best regards

[joachim_hildebrand]

Sorry!

 

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I made a tableau which did not work as You could see. Probably my

fault or the eMail-server messed it up.

 

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Once again without tableau:

 

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TKs 2x3

L 125, W 165, H 210, W 2800 g, Extension 340

 

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TK 2x3

L 95, W 160, H 210, W 2200 g, Extension 330

 

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TKs 4x5

L 125, W 215, H 255, W 3000 g, Extension 485

 

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TK 4x5

L 100, W 210, H 260, W 2900 g, Extension 510

 

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All measures are in mm exept weight. I hope it works this way

 

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Best regards

[bob_salomon2]

"TKs 4x5 L 125, W 215, H 255, W 3000 g, Extension 485 "

 

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Sorry not so. I just measured our sample.

 

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Which extension do you want?

Total extension or total extension to the film plane?

 

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Total extension to the film plane on a TK 45S is 510mm. total

extension is 560mm

 

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Size and weight of the closed camera (TK45S) without lens

board is.

 

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220mm W x 259mm H x 122mm D (with bellows on.

 

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Weight is 3209g

[joachim_hildebrand]

Bob,

 

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thank You for Your measurements and sorry for the confusion. As I

said I took the data from printed material by Linhof. It seems that

we cannot trust in Linhof brochures anymore, shame, shame. So please

tell Linhof that they have to correct their brochures.

 

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I own two TK (2x3 and 4x5) and could not measure a TKs. Until today I

did not even measure my cameras. But tonight I will because Your

measurements made me curious. Maybe the data in the TK manual is also

wrong.

 

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Best regards

[bob_salomon2]

Linhof has not had accurate measurements for a long time. It

seems that they might be making them from prototypes or

design drawngs.

 

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But the problem is increased by definition.

 

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Total extension vs total extension to the film plane,

Width and height on the TK 45, when folded does or does not

include the bellows (it overhangs the camera but does not on

the 23).

Weight with or without lensboard?

 

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After all you do need a lens board.

 

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In the US a lens board is included with the TK. In Germany it is

not included.

[robin_coutts]

I compared the TK and TKS side by side yesterday. The differences as

previously stated were slight. The TKS was slightly more stable with

a heavy back attatched, but this was very marginal. I liked them

both, had a real dilema choosing which one, but finally opted for the

TKS as I would never have been quite certain otherwise. Thank you for

your comments and advice.

 

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Robin

 

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PS Could you tell me a bit about the Boss screen please?

[bob_salomon2]

"Could you tell me a bit about the Boss screen please"

 

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The Boss screen uses a layer of paraffin sandwiched between 2

pieces of glass. That means that it must be made for a specific

camera brand as the wax layer is the imaging forming layer,

unlike a ground glass where the ground side is the imaging

forming layer.

On a Linhof the ground side of the ground glass sits on 4 small,

adjustable shims which allow service to adjust the exact

positioning of the focusing layer of the screen. On a Boss screen

that layer need to be compenstaed for so the internal wax layer

is exactly on the film plane.

 

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So you must have a Linhof specific Boss screen and, since

tolerances occur, a service center should verify proper

placement by calibrating the shims.

 

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This means that if you need to replace the screen in the field it

may not be properly installed.

 

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Additionally, since the image forming layer is wax, it has been

reported that extremes in temperature for some people have

caused the wax to melt and reset in summer (transportation of

camera in unisulated case in car trunk). or freeze and reset

(witer) which both result in the wax cracking.

 

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In most cases, with the widest range of lenses (wide to long)

best results frequently are with the latest version of the

manufacturer's ground glass and fresnel combination.

 

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bearing in mind that by adding an enhanced focusing screen,

Boss, Super Screen, Beattie, etc. has not increased the volumn

of light that enters the lens. So it needs to brighten by either

concentrating the light reaching the eye (frequently at the cost of

blacking out the image when the eye is not in the optical center)

or by making the grain very fine which can result in short lenses

becoming very difficult to focus as the image begins to appear

as an aerial image. This also happens when the enhanced

fresnel screen is the improper focal length for the lenses being

used with the camera.