1D MarkIII, my "almost" perfect camera.

[valo_soul]

Well, since the announcement of this camera, I've been incredibly excited (and

somewhat scared that I might spend so much money on it). I truly feel that an

upgrade from my Rebel XT would be beneficial to me at this point for several

reasons.

 

The main reasons are that I shoot in very low light the majority of the time

(weddings and concerts, mainly) and believe a better AF system and better high

ISO performance would be of benefit to me.

 

Also, and this is why I think the MarkIII is "almost" perfect for me, I would

love to have a FF camera (realizing that the 1DIII is not) because of it's

shallow DOF capabilities and wider FOV. I utilize many of the better large

aperture Canon primes (35L, 85LII, 135L) and want to get the most out of them.

 

My question then is this, would the APS-H sensor give me a noticeably wider FOV

and/or less DOF compared to my APS-C Rebel? I realize it will affect it to a

degree but do you think that waiting for a 5D replacement would suit me better?

Is the difference in DOF and field of view negligable, all else considered? Of

course only I really know what would please me...but anyone who has gone from

APS-C to APS-H? Or even from APS-C to FF and want to give an opinion? Thank you!

 

Also, is the high ISO performance of the 1DIII as good/better than the 5D,

which is regarded as being quite good. I ask this just because I know the

camera is finally in many users hands at this point.

[mark_chappell]

James: look around in the archives, or at recent threads in this forum. You will find that

the 1D3 has some autofocus 'issues' which may or may not be important for your

intended uses of the camera. I've met a few 'early adopters' -- mainly bird photographers

interested in flight shots -- who are disappointed with the AF system. There have been

some firmware upgrades but apparently they have not cured the problems.

 

As I said, the AF glitches may or may not impact your style of photography, but if I were in

your shoes I would make VERY sure they won't before you shell out $4500 (or whatever

it's going for).

 

By all reports, high ISO performance is excellent. Someone on this forum quoted noise

levels as being about a stop better than the 5D, but I don't know if that was from

experience or rumors. Yes, you will get a very noticeably wider FOV with the 1D3 than

with APS-C cameras (I have both 1.3 X and 1.6X DSLRs, and the difference is substantial).

[davebell]

Take the exact same lens, and mount in turn on different bodies with any sensor size you like. Maintain the exact same subject distance and take an image with each camera - the DOF will be the same in all cases, but the FOV would of course change.

 

This is my understanding, which of course is open to debate.

[valo_soul]

I do understand that David. I know how DOF works according to subject distance, aperture, etc. I'm just really wondering if the difference between the 1.3X and 1.6X DLRS is quite noticeable. The larger the sensor, the less cropping is done to the image circle, basically. This allows you to obtain a more shallow DOF on larger sensors because you can shoot closer to the subject with the "true" focal length. Anyway, just looking for some advice/info from users with experience :)

 

Thank you Mark, by the way! Yes, I am wary of those AF issues. I mainly shoot one-shot unless it's some action at a wedding or a performer running like mad down a stage runway or something. I wonder if it affects one-shot mode? Rob Galbraith mentioned that it does indeed affect static objects but I cannot recall if that was using Servo or another AF mode.

[colinsouthern]

James,

 

In summary ...

 

1. I have the 1D3 - it's great.

 

2. Reported AF issues only show (if then) in servo mode - I doubt you'd ever use it in this mode from what you've said.

 

3. 1D3 noise is 1 stop better than 5D

 

4. FF can be a blessing OR A CURSE, depending on lenses. Personally I like reach more than width. My widest lens (EF16-35 F2.8L USM II) is still very, very wide even though it's on a 1.3x crop-factor camera.

 

5. The 1D3 has many other firmware features that the 5D doesn't have (and will probably never have due to Canon product positioning).

 

I can't recommend the 1D3 highly enough.

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

[valo_soul]

Damn it, Colin. My credit card is burning. I was almost hoping to hear someone tell me it sucked (even though it doesn't) haha. Honestly though, thank you. I also have the 16-35II and I find myself thinking "if it were just a little wider". I'm using the RebelXT, as I said. I think the 1.3x could be perfect for me. Of course, a full frame 16mm would be amazing at times. I have dreamed of it :P Gah! I'm going to cry. I can't make up my mind to spend so much $$$. Anyway, thanks again.

[christopher hartt dallas]

Now that I've shot about 15,000 images with the MkIII in challenging (lower) light wedding conditions, I do agree that it's a good camera, but doesn't make the 1DMkIIN (it's predecessor) clearly inferior. I shoot 35L on 1 MkII N, 85LII on another (natural light) and 24-105L (flash). I see a difference in both RAW and jpg noise on all lenses from the II to the III, but it's not huge and this difference is minimized with proper post capture processing.

 

This is the roundabout way of saying that if the Mark III is your almost perfect camera, the Mark IIN will be pretty darn close to "perfect" for you also and with the prices of new MK IIN's falling, you might be well served by looking in that direction.

 

I don't know about shooting wildlife with this camera, but I've shot 2 departures of the bride and groom at night with the guests having sparklers. One departure I shot 35L on MKIIN at 1600 ISO and the other 35L on MKIII at 3200 (existing light). The noise from each was virtually identical but the focus of B&G walking quickly past the guests with sparklers was better with the MKIIN. Next time (tomorrow night) that I have a "sparkler" departure, I'll be using the MKIIN because of the clearer images.

 

Have you had the opportunity to use a MKIIN? Why not rent the cameras you're interested in and shoot with your lenses to draw your own conclusions. Forums are great for general information, but there isn't any substitute for you having the cameras in your hands and drawing your own conclusions about the equipment.

[jwhite3.0]

James, how about a used 1D MKII (~$2000) and a new 5D (~2500) = cost of new 1D MKIII? As for noticeable FOV, I must say that I was not terribly impressed when I made the 1D MKII 1.3X to 5D FF jump so maybe 1.6X to 1.3X isn't dramatically different either. However, I'm usually not a wide-angle shooter so I have a little neutrality on the issue whereas someone who shoots landscapes may love the 0.3X jump. Don't get me wrong, I am impressed with the image quality of the 5D. Doesn't sound like you can wait so put your credit card out of misery or don't think about it until the announcement of a new 5D. From your post it sounds like the 1D MKIII is the perfect camera for you and the next question is "do you need a perfect camera?" Good luck though, don't lose any more sleep

[valo_soul]

I love this forum. Honestly guys, it's amazing the help and courtesy you can get from some people on here. I appreciate the fact that people even respond, let alone give the great advice that so many of you do.

 

I was just almost ready to click the buy button and decided, no... I'm going to try some hands on experience. That's so true. The thing is, where I live here on the east coast of Canada, there are virtually no pro shops to try out equipment. Lenses are basically a given, if you know your limits and what you need to shoot. That's why I have the glass that I have.

 

Anyway, I was thinking, I should RENT a 5D and 1DIIN, if possible. It will still cost a little bit... but probably worth it to decide on a $5000+ purchase! Does anyone know of a reputable rental shop that deals cross-border, or directly within Canada? Thank you so much.

[andyjonesphotography]

Vistek in Toronto, Calgary and Ottawa rent equipment. Here's the website http://www.vistek.ca/

[valo_soul]

Holy crap! $525 for a week for the 5D. No thanks!

[valo_soul]

That's unreal. $1050 for a 1DsII 1 week rental. I mean yeah it's the 1DsII.. but $1050 PLUS shipping for a one week rental? You could rent a car for 2 months for that. That place is crrrazy.

[colinsouthern]

James - a little technique that's worked for me all my life: "Buy first, justify later" :)

 

I think that the "satisfaction factor" is a relative thing - I'm sure that many are very satisfied with the likes of the 5D, but most of them have probably never owned a 1D3. No doubt I'd be blown away with the performance of a V8 supercar - right up until the time I get to drive a Formula 1 car - after that the V8 supercar would no-doubt seem almost "mediocre".

 

I HATE mediocre whenever it appears in any area of my life - I use only L series lenses - my tripod and head cost more than many high-end SLRs - and I even had to buy my own printer to get the results MY WAY - damnit, I deserve the very best that I can afford - and for me that was the 1D3 - and you know what? I wouldn't part with it for love nor money. I'll bet none of the other users who own it would either.

 

Go on - just do it ...

 

... you know you want to!

 

PS: Also "seriously cool" bragging rights - I just love putting it into high-speed mode - handing it to friends - and getting them to take a shot (I should say "shots" - most end up taking between 6 & 15 in a burst before they even figure out what's happening!).

 

I'd like to print their most common first reactions - unfortunately I think the mods would be banning me for profanity PDQ!

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

[jason_hall4]

Check out these guys. www.lensprotogo.com

 

I think you can get it for a lot less. They ship all the stuff in a pelican case. They send an email to remind you to ship it back. Just repack it and install the provided prepaid shipping label and drop it off at the post office.

[valo_soul]

Colin, that's just it... I'm EXACTLY like you it seems haha. Let me guess, Gitzo 6x carbon fiber with an arca swiss monoball? Or something close.. lol.

 

I'm sick on quality too. I still think I'm going to wait a liiiiittle bit longer for a 5DII or the like. I feel I'd be wasting the 10FPS of the 1DIII and I don't specifically "need" the 1-series weatherproofing, etc. It is still ideally "perfect" though because it would give me options that, although I don't need, would be securing to have available. Ah well, we'll see.

 

Thanks Colin :P

[valo_soul]

Thanks Jason, I'll check it out.

[colinsouthern]

James,

 

Pretty close - I've got a Gitzo 1548 Carbon Fibre with a Really Right Stuff 55mm Ballhead (with panning clamp, of course) - I'll probably add a Wimberley head to that setup as well shortly!

 

10FPS is cool, but I don't use it much in that mode - although I am keen to experiment with some "high speed" stuff (perhaps capturing a wine glass getting broken by a BB from a BB gun or something similar).

 

Camera has some other nice features as well - if you were shooting in bad light (perhaps hand-holding in a church) you could tell the camera not to shoot less than 1/60th - keep the aperture between F2.8 & F4, and vary the ISO in 1/3 stops to get a correct exposure. Then of course there's ISO 6400 - or the safety of being able to write to 2 cards at once - ability to save different configs under 3 preset groups - LiveView - 19 selectable AF points - autofocus that's so quick I think the lens would start smoking if things moved any further ... and many more (like highlight tone priority :)

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

[bernardwest]

<i>Camera has some other nice features as well - if you were shooting in bad light (perhaps hand-holding in a church) you could tell the camera not to shoot less than 1/60th - keep the aperture between F2.8 & F4, and vary the ISO in 1/3 stops to get a correct exposure. Then of course there's ISO 6400 - or the safety of being able to write to 2 cards at once - ability to save different configs under 3 preset groups - LiveView - 19 selectable AF points - autofocus that's so quick I think the lens would start smoking if things moved any further ... and many more (like highlight tone priority :)

</i><br><br>

 

What can't it do?! Is this the end of the statement "It's not the camera but the photographer that makes the difference"? :)

[colinsouthern]

What can't it do? ... well so far, the following:

 

1. Focus bracketing (for stacking images with the likes of Helicon focus),

 

2. Keep the mirror up for more than 30 seconds (unless using live view),

 

3. Assign the max burst count to high and low speed shooting modes independantly,

 

4. Incorporate leveling info into viewfinder and EXIF data,

 

5. Set slowest shutterspeed > 1/60th,

 

6. Support more than 6 items on the favourite menu,

 

7. Support naming of CF sets,

 

(although I've had these ideas added to Canon's monthly user feedback report).

 

Ultimately - of course - the photographer makes a big difference too, but a good camera just helps him do it more easily. Put Michael Schumacher in a VW and he'll still finish last an a F1 race - better tools help do a better job :)

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

[jim_larson1]

The initial post emphasized two things;

 

1) Low noise

 

2) Excellent DOF.

 

For DOF. . .you will NOT beat the 5D. The 5D is full frame. The 1D-III is not.

 

In terms of noise. . huh. I hear the 1D-III is better. I have not seen anyone quantify the difference, but there is good reason to think it is there. Certainly. . I would expect the 5D replacement to use the same (but larger) sensor as the 1D-III.

 

You need to wait until at least Late August to see if the 5D-II is "right around the corner". There is also the mythical 40D. That may also have a step change in image quality. (It had better. . .because there are indications that the 40D will be a 10mp camera.)

[josh_ross1]

I think in reality you don't need a mark series camera and would be better suited buying a 5D. However if you have money to burn and want the best I would rather have the 1ds MarkII over the Mark III. It's got significantly higher resolution and it's a full frame camera. Unless you are specifically shooting sports it seems like the 1ds would be a better camera.

[yakim_peled1]

The ergonomics of a 1-series camera is unlike any other (e.g. 5D). You really need to try one before deciding. Personally, I love it and find all others problematic but that's a very subjective issue. Coming from the XTi I suspect that the jump to a 1-series would be too big and a 5D would be a more comfortable upgrade. If not, there's always the 1Ds Mk II..... :-)

 

If renting is expensive I suggest you try to find someone located next to you with these bodies.

 

Happy shooting,

Yakim.

[jwhite3.0]

$525 for a week rental of the 5D. Why do you need it a week or do they only allow for week rental? Let's forget DOV or FOV or POV for a second. The 5D and 1D MKIII are different beasts and we all know the differences between the two cameras. Speed vs large prints vs AF vs low noise vs whatever. Now weight those factors.

 

Ok, back to FOV and DOF. James you need to get ahold of a 1D MKI or MKII or MKIII and a 35mm film SLR. Doesn't matter as we're talking about viewfinders here and you know the features of a 5D and 1D MKIII. Borrow a friends if you have to. Look thru the various viewfinders with a fast lens to get the best look. And determine what you like. You can also just do this in photoshop. Take an image and crop it 30%. That's your 1D MKIII FOV.

 

We can talk about noise but in reality both of these dSLRS are going to produce low noise images. We can argue about 1 vs 2 but I think we all can live with a no.2. in terms of noise.

 

Ok, FOV, in this age of high quality zooms and simply walking closer/farther away from a subject the FOV is the least of my concerns. DOF isn't the same with the between these cameras with the same lens. However, you can gain that same DOF or FOV by zooming or walking. That's just my take. I know it's more complex but it doesn't have to be. As I mentioned before, the 1D FOV isn't remarkably different from FF. This is subjective. I realize for some people it is a huge difference however James has his own opinion and needs to try out the cameras before spending. James, if you're not a landscape shooter or do it rarely then we may not even need to have this discussion. Portraits are many times cropped in wedding images so think about wasted frame. You can buy the camera and resell it with probably a 5-15% loss. That's probably the same cost as renting.

 

Ask for a rental deal, if they happen to sell cameras as well tell them you'll buy a camera from if they cut you a deal on renting.

 

James, as a fun exercise, sit down and weight the various factors....FOV, AF @ f/8, buffer size, AF accuracy, fps, weathersealing, battery life, print size, camera weight, dual memory card, etc. Then go thru the features of each camera and score them against your weighted factor. See what comes out the winner and go for it. I wish I had this kind of discipline but maybe you do.

 

If you're going to wait for the new 40D or 5D then hand your CC to your wife or friend and ask them to hold it. Anything announced at the end of August won't reach your doors until Nov. to Dec. at the earliest. You won't suffer if you don't have the possibility of buying.

 

I think you already know the answer to your question. I prefer to wait 2-3 years when the cost of a used 1D MKIII is going to be about 25-50% cheaper. For right now I use the 1D MKII for certain situations and the 5D for others. A 1D MKIII is a fantastic camera that fits in between the 1D MKII and 5D. I'll take your 1D MKIII in 3 years:)

 

Good luck and everyone have a great weekend. Are we having fun yet?

[beauh44]

<I>That's unreal. $1050 for a 1DsII 1 week rental.</i><P>

 

That *is* nuts. Rent it for 6 weeks or so and you can buy a new one. And I doubt there are too many people (if any) who could look at an image and tell if it was shot by a 1DsII versus a 5D anyway. I own a 1DsII, btw but not a 5D.

[zackojones]

Contact Paul at lensprotogo.com and see if he will rent you one. I know he has both bodies but I don't know if he rents outside of the USA.