Black coating on 665 pack P/N, what a mess!

[sandy_sorlien]

Howdy,

 

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I am a newbie to Polaroid pack 665 (thanks to all for your previous help on loading it!) --- have now shot a few packs of it and cannot figure out the safest way to get the black backing off. It comes off in the water bath, but in many small globs which get all over my hands and everything else, ruining the water bath for the next shot. The pictorial instructions on the Polaroid website show it coming off nicely in a big blob, but even when I get that to happen (rarely), it soils my hands. I am working with this on the street and can't wash my hands. Moist towelettes, etc, are not good enough -- this is a real mess. Invariably some negs get scratched as I fumble about. Yuck!

Thanks for any advice.

[dave_willison]

Sandy:

 

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I periodically use Type 55 P/N film in the field to produce quick

negatives and avoid darkroom fatigue. My practice has always been to

remove the film packet without processing and return home to treat and

wash the film negative. Is there a reason you need to process the film

in the field? Does your Polaroid holder allow you to release the film

packet without processing? Alternatively, have you tried using a

dedicated accesssory tank which separates each negative?

 

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........................................

[sandy_sorlien]

Hi Dave,

I wish it worked like the Type 55, but unfortunately you do have to

process it right away. When you pull out the film it starts the gel

developer.

I'm using a 6x9 Arca-Swiss camera so I can't use Type 55.

Yes, I should find a better water tank to keep the negs separated from

each other, but I think I'd still get gunk on my hands. I just wonder

if this is how it's supposed to be --- is anyone able to get this

backing off in one piece consistently?

Cheers,

Sandy

[matt_sampson]

Sandy

Do you mean the sticky gunk that covers one side of the neg. If so a

solution of Sodium Sulphite will do theh job. I think Polaroid

recommend a 12 or 18% solution but in my experience a few table

spoons per litre does the trick. Too strong and it's quick, too weak

and it takes longer. Plain water will work apparently but not until

you've scratched the neg good and proper. Type 665 is not the

greatest stuff for working on location with...Type 55 is easier but

on your 6x9 Arca you don't have the choice. You've got to want those

wobbly edges and tonal range to be bothered with this stuff.

[bill_jefferson1]

Hi Sandy,

 

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To remove the backing off the T-665 negative, after clearing the

negative in a 18% solution of sodium sulfite, place the negative in a

running water bath to wash it, in a few minuits the antihalation

backing will start to bubble, over the entire surface,gently rub one

corner to start it and you can gently peel it off the negative.

 

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Bill

[sandy_sorlien]

Yes, Matt, I do want the wobbly edges and uneven areas and beautiful

tonal range of the negative. I barely look at the positive. The

backing I speak of is only on the 665 pack film, you Type 55 users

don't have to contend with this tar-like layer.

Bill, your method would be great but I have no running water in the

field (street). I guess my question now is, is it OK to leave the

black layer on as it soaks in water for an hour or two before I can

get back to the motel? At least that way it wouldn't get on my hands.

I was also hoping to get away with using water only, no sodium

sulfite, at least until I get back to the motel. But I guess I can

carry a jug of the SS in the car.

[dk_thompson]

Sandy, I use both the 55 and 665 for proofing in our studio & on

location...although I really prefer the type 55. You can hold the 665

in water for a short while, I really don't know how long is "too

long"....but I'd think you'd be okay for a couple of hours at the

least. Just don't touch it a whole lot while you're holding it that

way, and make sure you eventually do get it into the sodium sulfite

bath to clear. I've always had to work the goop off the film in

clearing as well, gently with my fingers...I usually try to wear some

disposable gloves for this because the sulfite likes to get

everywhere....it's like fix, when it dries it turns up in the weirdest

places....you could get an old plastic film tank (like a Yankee) or

the polaroid bucket to hold the sheets in as well. I know they don't

recommend it, but I have used just regular old Permawash to clear the

film when I was in a hurry as well....I can't vouch for it's

longevity, but we really don't make "permanent" negs on the stuff

anyways.

[jorge_gasteazoro]

Sandy, why not get a tupperware container with a sealable lid and

just drop the film there and take the backing off at home?

Provided the container does not leak, I would just use water and

transfer them to a sodium sulfite solution when I got back home.

[manuel_gomes_teixeira1]

I confirm Gasteazoro method. Try it !

[sandy_sorlien]

I have 2 brand-new Tupperwares that I've been using for soaking the

film, and they both leak! Guess I should try the Tupperware Forum...

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll keep practicing.

Cheers.

[steve_wiley]

I've seen mottling occur when using the Tupperware method,

presumably from a lack of space between the negs. You're

better off using the bucket designed for field use of P/N

materials. Calumet sells them. I heard the other day that an

8x10 P/N is on the way. It's called 805!

[wayne_crider3]

6x9 film holders will work to hold the film in a (for example)

4x5 Kodak developing tank containing a sodium sulfite solution. The

tank can be placed in a 5 gal pail. Wash the negs when you get home.

[sandy_sorlien]

Update: Gee, if I'd only followed directions I wouldn't be bothering

everyone here. I just shot some more 665 P/N and let it soak a minute

in sodium sulfite and the black backing came off very nicely in one

piece without soiling my hands. I tried it again in water only, and it

broke into bits and created a mess that stains hands. I was trying to

get away with only using water in the field --- guess I can't.

Someone on this forum said water works great with Type 55 but that's

another film....

[phillip_highley]

Type 665:

 

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ThereÕs a Ônot so simple methodÕ that I've been using for over 5

years now..It might be tricky at first, but try it over and over and

you will get it...

 

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While in 'the field' I use a couple of methods...

I like the Doran Adjustable Cut-Film-Pack Developing Tank

because you can load your negs vertical...

To keep the mess down I use distilled water instead of the

sodium bath...we'll use it later...

 

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After you pull your type 665 pos/neg, and it's developed to your

liking, pull apart the papers at the tab end (the end you pull out

of the holder)...this will pull away the print and paper developer

mask on one side, the neg/backing and the spent 'developer pod

will be the other half. (The 'pod' is what I call the mound of

unused developer that gets squeezed to the bottom...this is

important well get to it in a second)

 

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Put the positive off to the side, (have an assistant coat it while

you are taking care of the following steps)

 

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Holding the neg/backing/pod you should have the tab on the

left-hand side, spent developer pod on the right.

 

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Notice that the 'pod' is overlapping the negative by 1/32 of an

inch.

 

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Hold the neg/backing with your left index finger and thumb...as

close to the overlap as possible, hold the pod with your right

thumb and index finger...

 

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Carefully peel away the pod from the neg/backing by pulling the

pod up and away...carefully throw this away.

 

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Now flip the neg/backing over to the black coated side...keep the

former 'pod' side up (holding the backing/neg vertical, the Ôpull

tabÕ is at the bottom, and yes, holding it in your left hand not

laying it down)

 

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Take your right thumb and wet it with some saliva, then

immediately rub your wet thumb across the upper left-hand

corner of the backingÉnot too wet, and a swatch about the size

of your thumbprint

 

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You will notice it getting dull...wait about five seconds then

carefully take the formerly wet thumb and begin to roll back the

backing.. Once you have enough to hold on to, then slowly pull

the backing away from the neg., going from corner to

cornerÉthen 3/4 of the way down pull it evenly from side-to-side

till you get to the bottomÉ

*DonÕt pull it completely off, but notice that you will see where it

overlaps the neg. with the developer mask. Roll back the bottom

of the backing until you see the bottom edge of the negative, now

carefully separate the neg. from the paper developer mask by

pulling the negative towards you, the mask/backing away from

you.

 

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Place the negative in the developing tank in the same direction

as the previous one

keeping them in the same order throughout these steps helps to

keep the scratches to a minimum.

 

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That's it!

 

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Easy?

 

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A couple of practice steps and you will have it down...

 

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Another note is that the Doran adjustable tank has 10 slots for

film...after I've filled them up with the (10) 665 negs, then I

carefully pull them out two at a time, placing them back to back

and returning them to an empty slot...this gives you room for 20

negs, and allows the distilled water to dissolve the developer.

 

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Take the Doran tank back to your lab/ hotel room/ mobile

darkroom camper...and treat them with the sodium sulfite bath

listed above...

 

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I like the Yankee Agitank for the washing step...I use a rubber

hose attached to my sink and with the lid on, place the hose in

the top of the pouring slot...another tip is to use a nice fat sturdy

rubber band to keep the lid securely on the tank, this will ensure

the water flows from the bottom of the tank to the top (that's why I

prefer the Yankee)

 

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Wash and photo-flo.

 

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Some examples of my 665 negs can be found on my website:

 

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http://home.earthlink.net/~highleyphotography/index.htm

 

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Good luck!