fill flash example

[shaun_carter]

1. locate bride and groom in full shaded area

2. take meter reading with sekonic flashmeter and get 60/5.6@iso200

3. set 30d to manual mode and dial in 60/5.6

4. set 580ex to manual mode, turn dial on flash and push shutter until

distance shown equals actual distance from couple.

5. dial flash down -1 to -2 stops

6. take the picture

 

does this sound right? i'm a little confused about step 2 to 3. do i set my

camera to the actual meter reading?

[stephen dohring]

Hoe can you go to this much effort and thought per picture? - it will take you forever to shoot and you will miss all kinds of moments.

 

How are you predicitng what the meter reading will say?

 

Just from this quetion I would shoot in P mode and RAW if I were you and worry about composition. With more experience you can learn to trust the cameras meter and practice will help balance flash. Working with a pro is a really good idea.

[conraderb]

delanza, first, if the bride and groom are in open shade area, I wouldn't use fill flash period.

 

if they are in bright overhead sun and you can't get them out, that is when you use fill flahs.

 

here's what I would do.

 

use the camera in board meter and find a good base ambient reading.

 

dial in -1 on your TTL flash and give that a try. it shouldn't look dramatically different - but the faces should be lighter.

 

yes, you would generally set your camera to whatever the light meter tells you. but hardly anyone uses light meters for weddings any more - just use the on board meter and your brain (compensating for very bright or dark subjects) and the histogram. much faster IMHO.

 

also - shooting manual helps this process a LOT.

[cjogo]

DELANZA --I still use a hand meter for every shot....manual exposure the whole day ..and always use fill flash in open shade. I prefer a auto strobe (non EOS) so I can quickly have 4 Auto settings to work with. If you are going to use the 580 > you will have to figure out distances : and then just familiarize yourself with the manual settings. ( Usually with a dome ~ about 1/16 to 1/8 for fill @ 8ft ) Most the shooters I know stay exactly 8ft from their subjects and the manual settings are passable. I like the look of a bounce card ~~ in a fill situation . I for one > would not hire a shooter, who did not follow the steps you have suggest... maybe that's why we pay $75/125 per hour for second shooters. Open shade : 60th @ f5.6 : is asking for a flash bounced to a card @ auto F4 (max) or direct through a dome @ 2.8. You are looking for FILL > not KEY...You don't want to see the strobe...just a catch light in their eyes .<div></div>

[steve_c.5]

My opinion? I shoot wedding professionally and don't own a handheld meter. To me, if you're waving a meter around in front of your subjects for every shot, you'll not only be annoying, but wasting a bunch of time. Sure, it might make you look like a pro if you whip one out once in awhile, but with today's digital equipment, it's just not necessary. Weddings are very fluid and fast-moving events where people simply don't have the patience for you to get your settings right and meter everything by hand.

 

I've shot RAW and while it gives you tons of exposure and white balance flexibility, it just takes me too long to process through every shot and wait on the computer to apply settings, etc. I only use RAW for critical portrait work where I need the extra sharpness and ability to tweak. Most everything else I shoot is JPEG, and I do just fine.

 

Remember, most wedding clients don't blow stuff up to 20 x 30 inches. Most of your 10 megapixel shots you've spent all this time tweaking to death never get printed beyond 4 x 6 or 5 x 7, and some 8 x 10.

 

You shouldn't have to set that exensive 30D and 580ex to manual mode and tweak everything by hand. That camera has a computer in it that is often smarter than you are (and faster too).

 

I hope this effort you're going to is because of an over-abundance of caution, and not some obsessive compulsive thing.

 

In weddings, speed, creativity, and a good eye will beat that light meter all to heck. Good luck!

[cjogo]

When you use a hand meter --you only take one reading > per lighting situation. One in the open shade and one key setup --that's about it. I am still teaching this system today. Film is still my main method of capture. With digital only RAW. All the images we shoot are included in our package...so the shot in the open shade is exactly the same density as the one in bright sun (never below 86) It really is fast -- manually set your shutter/aperture from the one meter reading ~ at your location and the whole session stays the same ...concentrate on creativity. Since we shoot 2 hours before the ceremony, there is plenty of patience to go around. Just a different approach especially since I do very little PJ . Almost a pro ~ after 30 years.

[gregstuckeyaus]

From what you describe, at step two you are measuring the incident light falling on your subject (assuming incident reading), 3. setting the camera to match that incident light reading. At 4 you determining the manual flash output to match the incident reading and then in step 5 set the compensation. What does this mean? If you have taken your reading from the key light source or where it is brightest you have first matched your camera and flash to equal that exposure. Dialing the flash down then reduces the flash output or if you like it reduces the amount of light the flash is listening for. When taking the photo and enough light comes back to the flash the output is cut. In other words you will be sending out light from the flash 1 or 2 stops less than your key light.

Using the camera metering pretty much does the same thing, you take an exposure reading of the subject or the whole picture or the background, using evaluative or partial or average weight etc. Rather than you using the manual mode the camera sets the output for the camera based on what it thinks is the subject distance, you can have compensation set just like you did at step 5. Knowning that the light from your fash going to the subject will be 1 or 2 stops less than the exposure that the camera measured. Undertanding how your camera's different metering modes handles different lighting situations tells you what the camera is treating as the important part of the image. Just like when you take a meter reading you can meter the highlight side of your subject on the shadow side or half way between the keylight and the camera or just the light falling on the front of the subject. Generally the evaluative metering system does an excellent job in standard lighting situations.

There are also some excellent threads on the some of the more technical aspects of the use of flash I would encourgage to look for them if you haven't already ;-)

 

Regards

Greg

[fotografz]

There is no pat formula. The situation discribed could be in open shade with a wall behind

the subject, or be a lake/beach behind the subject, or feature an open sunwashed park

area.

 

If you take an incedent reading at the subject, the background could be beyond the

dynamic range of the camera and be completely blown out ... which is okay if you want

that sort of thing ... but why be at a location if you don't capture it?

 

In almost all cases, the digital camera's histogram is your best friend. Meter the whole

scene and adjust your 30Ds exposure compensation so the Histogram reads as far right

( the toe) as possible without clipping the lights ( exceptions to this are backgrounds like

water with glistening specular highlights that can take a small amount of clipping). You

can compensate the background to taste ( I like saturated backgrounds as opposed to

wishy/washy ones).

 

Then compensate your flash to taste. That will also depend on the immediate

surroundings ... whether the subject is in deep shade with a strong back lighting, or a

more well lit place like beach sand that acts like a big reflector.

 

After doing this a few times you get to know approx. where to start and the process takes

a few seconds at most, and remains constant until conditions change. Read your manual

on how to access your histogram.

 

Here's a case where the subject was slightly back lit, and in artifically created shade ...

with a background that easily could have been washed out in the noon day sun.<div></div>

[gregstuckeyaus]

Marc did you do any editing of that image in terms of the subject background balance? I can never get the balance that good in camera perhaps I should give that histogram thing a go!

 

Delanza, the following example uses a spot metering technique in an extreme backlit situation. That day had been so bright I tried to shoot the wedding with my ray bans on. I metered using spot at a mid point in the sky to obtain my base exposure, I didn't want to meter for the whole scene as the setting sun would have meant that the subjects would have been entirely lit by the flash and I wanted to keep the backlit feel.

 

http://www.photo.net/photo/6256885

 

This next technique is using the evaluative metering mode with the fill flash and no compensation as I wanted to balance the front lighting with the side lighting and create as much as I could a 1:1 ratio. The Evaluative metering and the ETTL doesn't do a bad job. Note the catchlights in the girls eyes something you may be looking for in taking shots in the shade.

 

http://www.photo.net/photo/6256899

 

Both examples are out of the camera.

 

I hope this helps

Regards

Greg

[daydreamsart]

I used to use my meter only for setting up strobes, but now I use it outdoors more and it saves me time and eliminates wasted exposures because the meter only takes a second and like Cjo said, you only need a couple of readings. I also use the 580 (on the 20D) and set it for ETTL, high speed sync. You do have to adjust the flash output to adjust for the scene. If your shutter speed is faster than 1/250, you will lose some of your flash's output power when using HSS. I'm guessing on Marc's example, if he had it set on ETTL, he had to increase the flash output because all that white sand was telling the flash there was plenty of light and the output should be reduced which would have left the couple underexposed. So the camera was set for the background, and it was up to the flash to expose the subjects, which meant increasing the flash's output. How much to dial the flash up and down starts out with a lot of experimenting and chimping. Then it gets more intuitive and you can just look at a scene and know how much to dial the flash up or down.

 

If the lighting is fairly even, I would use my light meter to tell me the best settings at my chosen ISO and aperture, then leave the flash at 0 compensation or dial it down a little so it just added some sparkle to the subject's eyes, letting the natural light be key. I shoot all RAW and use direct flash outdoors. Bouncing is rarely an option outdoors. If the flash becomes the key light (like if the subject is in really dark conditions and there's no place to bounce), I might remove the flash and use it off camera for directional lighting, and either have it tethered to the hot shoe with a cord and hold it myself, or set it on a light stand (or someone holding it) with a Pocket Wizard connected to it.

[fotografz]

Greg, that shot was done with a H3D/31 which has more dynamic range going in than my

Canon's do, and a very accurate Histogram built into the grip so it's an easy check. The in-

camera flash control of the Metz offers up to 5 stops compensation either way (- or + ),

depending on ambient light levels, and distance ( can't squeeze out more light than the

flash's maximum output : -)

 

When the RAW file was processed in Lightroom, I used a slight bit of the "Fill" slider to further

tweak the light balance ... but it was pretty much there right out of the camera.

[cjogo]

Since I can do very little chimping, using film...I really have to rely on my past skills. Without post manipulations I have to be fairly perfect with composition/exposure. Using a AUTO strobe is just what I am accustomed with, to accurately & quickly dial in the light. A Quantum/Norman/Metz will supply f8+ on a key day (250 @ 11) @12 ft , I guess chimping and studying the histogram would conclude that. There are 3 basic aperture/shutter settings and I move my subjects to that light > so they are evenly lit..dial in the appropriate fill or key fstop on my auto strobe. Yes, learning the different metering systems accompanying the camera's computer and mastering the compensation of the flashes output could achieve the same results. I just can't help believe, many photographers here, use countless minutes, in their post skills > to "repair" what they could have alleviated ~ with a handmeter as their chimper :-)<div></div>

[picturesque]

You set your camera to the actual meter reading if the shade is very even and you want to expose the scene for the light on your subjects. I assume your Sekonic flashmeter is reading ambient light and you have correctly taken an incident meter reading from the subject position with dome pointing to the camera. Depending on what is behind the couple, you may or may not want to adjust that meter reading. You may want to balance the subjects (foreground) to the background...or not. If you are metering with flash in the picture, this is another story...perhaps you need to clarify this since things get complicated if your meter doesn't report proportion of flash to ambient.

 

As for the flash, first you need to decide if you want fill flash in that situation. If so, how much? In very even shade and without balancing the background to the foreground, you may not even need flash--only if there are eye socket shadows, maybe. Manual flash is great if you have the time--I normally just use ETTL evaluative flash metering and know how much to minus compensate for various fill-flash-in-even-shade scenarios.

[cjogo]

Hey > no fair MARC -- using a H3D and I am using a $50 EOS S2a :-)

[fotografz]

I'm making 22" display prints for every client C Jo, ocassionally from heavily cropped files. I

don't use that camera at every wedding, just ones where I know the contrast range is going

to be severe. That, or use a MF film camera.

 

The web is no place to judge actual results : -)

[cjogo]

The images look so saturated & colorful on my CS/ monitor...gets to the web and stripped of everything >> need a special plugin that attaches to images uploaded to the web.

[dilley]

I don't think anyone mentioned explicitly the difference between 'fill flash' and 'flash as main lighting'. You would only use fill flash (that is, a small amount of light to lessen the shadows) when you want to use the ambient light source (in this case the sun) as the main light source, and supplement it with your flash. Many of the examples here (but not all) are using the flash as the main lighting for the subject, but balancing the shutter speed to correctly expose the background, which is lit by another light source (the sun).

 

I am not quite sure from your original post which your intent is, but it could be either. If the background is something you want to accent, but perhaps could be blown out, you may want to meter for the background, then meter for the subject, and balance the shutter speed to accomodate both (or, which digital, just keep upping your shutter speed until the background is the darkness you want).

 

If you don't care about the background and have enough ambient light to illuminate the subject, you could use fill flash (I always just set my flash to TTL and at -1 2/3 exposure) to highlight the subject, or perhaps you would just use ambient light if the shadows, etc, are to your liking.

 

I hope I didn't overlap anyone else's explanation too much!

[cjogo]

BECCA --"Many of the examples here (but not all) are using the flash as the main lighting for the subject, but balancing the shutter speed to correctly expose the background, which is lit by another light source (the sun)."

I, for one, am trying not to use the flash as the main lighting but, the daylight ambient as my source and filling 2 stops under that F stop. ie ~ 60th @ 5.6 hand metered // flash is on 2.8 AUTO with diffusion. Most of my images are set in even/open shade...rarely direct sun. The latitude of shooting film does help with the much brighter, distant background > in my one sample.

[shaun_carter]

thanks for the feeback everyone. the helps reinforce the fact that there is no one formula for fill flash. depends on the lighting conditions and desired outcome. sounds like key is knowing what you want before you even take the picture and having a REASON for firing the flash in the first place...

[dilley]

C Jo- You are totally right, I rushed through the images on the page last night and many are using fill flash (not as the main light).

[clauder]

Marc,

 

Is that an umbrella they brought or did you schlepp around a shoot-through brolly? :-)