spot meter / club camera

[eli_chartkoff1]

Okay, I've asked similar questions to this before, but now I can get a little

more specific:

 

I have an autocord that I use for everyday photography. I've been fooling

around with flashbulbs but I really am only skilled at available light

photography, so forget flash for now.

 

I've been taking a lot of band photos lately in dark clubs with bad/uneven

lighting, so, say, one part of the (small) stage will be brightly lit in one

spot but very dark a few feet away. I've got a nice luna pro meter, but

obviously a spot meter would be useful for me. I've noticed that most 1-2

degree meters I've seen for sale are in the $200-300 range; that's fine, but I

just want to make sure that's what I should expect to pay for one. Can someone

comment on that?

 

Also, the problems with the Autocord: somewhat dim viewfinder (I'm sending it in

to be CLA'd, so that should help, but I dunno by how much), and it's very

difficult to read the teeny tiny aperture settings in the dark. The lens is

pretty slow but I can compensate by using very fast film, so that's not the end

of the world. I like that the Autocord is all-manual. I know I could get a

Hassleblad or something that can do all this, but it needs to be something I'd

be comfortable taking to clubs in skid row in Downtown LA.

 

Suggestions?

[patrick j dempsey]

One option is to get in close for the metering. You are really only metering for the band, not the dark mass of the crowd. Meter up-close and then back off to take your shots. As long as they dont have a full lighting show with quickly changing lights it shouldn't be TOO problematic. If I was you I would also bracket the better angles a bit. With 12 exposures you honestly cant expect to get much usable... bands are hard enough to shoot in 36 exposures on 35mm film. So I would bracket and hope you get at least one good shot. If your lighting isnt changing, then maybe write down the main setting you used, and then when you get them processed you can think about what to do next time you go out. With bands, you can get interesting effects with over and underexposure anyway. Most importantly, don't be too upset about your first few rolls... about the only predicable thing about shooting live music with a classic camera is that its difficult!

 

As far as apertures go, dont worry about them. More than likely you will be shooting wide open or close to it, just to get a correct exposure. Of course that requires better focus... when you get it CLA'd ask about getting a brightfinder. Im not sure if there is one out there that fits the Autocord, but if there is, it should help visibility a little! More than likely you will find yourself using distance focusing anyway. If you really want Spot metering and better focusing, why not carry another camera with you to help out? If you carry a 35mm SLR camera capable of spot metering, you can use the fast lens of the SLR to get accurate focus off of the distance scale on the lens, and then match that to your Autocord. That would also give you the option of shooting a different film with the SLR. If you choose the same speed film for both, then getting accurate meter readings shouldnt be an issue.

[BrianS1664879711]

Okay, I have a few more suggestions:

 

1. A couple of hundred is not an unreasonable price for a used spotmenter; a new one, like a Sekonic, will cost about $500. Use close-up metering with the Luna-Pro, as mentioned in previous post. If you want a cheaper way to experiment with spot metering, get a 7/15-degree attachment for your Luna-Pro. It might not be much good in dim environment but will be quite useful for ourdoor work.

 

2. Stay out of clubs in Skid Row; Stay out of Skid Row.

 

3. Don't think Hassy for shooting bands; think 35mm or DSLR.

 

4. Pay attention to #2 :)

[eli_chartkoff1]

Hey Brain, thanks for your response.

 

In fact I have a Mamiya/Sekor MSX 500 35mm SLR which I haven't used in, hmmm, years. It does have a built-in meter (which I've never used), so if I can get it to come to life I will give that a try.

 

I have a definite bias towards rollfilm but if a 35mm makes more sense, then that's fine. Although I'd think a rangefinder might have a brighter rangefinder than a SLR?

 

Skid Row here isn't really too bad, and it's where a lot of the clubs are...I play in bands myself and I've never had a problem, but I think it'd be stupid to bring a $1000+ camera down there.

[eli_chartkoff1]

And Pat, thanks for your advice too. Very helpful.

[BrianS1664879711]

"Skid Row here isn't really too bad..."

 

Are we living in the same L.A.? I had no idea that there was a club scene there!

[eli_chartkoff1]

Brian:

 

Have you heard of The Smell? It's off of Hope (or is it Spring?), in a skid row alley. It's great, an all-ages club, believe it or not, but there are often dealers and hookers around the corner (I wonder how many parents would really like to have their teenage kids hanging out around there). They've never ever hassled me but, like I say, no point in taking a really expensive camera down there.

 

Let's see, there's Bordello near Little Tokyo, and The Cocaine in Little Tokyo itself (which is a pretty safe neighborhood, for the most part). Lots of unofficial venues in lofts and galleries and warehouse/factory spaces scattered through downtown, places that will be open for a year or so and then close down. My favorite at the moment is Pehrspace, next to a storefront church on Glendale Boulevard just outside Downtown--it's also a gallery. These are all great places to see bands and they're all very accomodating about people taking pictures (i.e., they don't care). I also like The Echo in Echo Park a lot, but that's a much bigger venue, and not in downtown for that matter.

 

Oh yeah--on Spring Street there's a semi-deserted hotel (whose name escapes me at the moment, but I can look it up) that is now a halfway home, but it's a wonderful place to do photo shoots--I can name a ton of bands that do their band pics there, and it's free, you just wander in--entire floors and ballrooms of this decaying turn-of-the-century luxury hotel are all just deserted. It's a great location--er, except that the last time I was there someone stumbled into the ballroom where we were and started shooting up in the corner. But apart from that...

 

So yeah--lots of places. In fact this very evening I will be at a place in Highland Park, on Figueroa, called Mr. T's Bowl, with the ol' Autocord.

[robert_marvin]

You should be able to get a used Soligor spot meter for about $100. Mine works fine.

[nickc1]

My sekonic spot meter was 56 GBP (100$) from eBay, but for even cheaper why don't you look for a late film SLR and try 35mm? - 50 or 60$ should get you a nikon or olympus with buit in spot metering, and give you a couple of stops or so on your aperture. My personal preference would be a Nikon F601 (6006) or F801 (8008) - If anyone nicks them you are not much of a loser financially - and later, if you liked it,you could get the superb 85mm 1.8 lens. Or what about the all metal OM2sp from Olympus. Final suggestion - when photographing in the more dangerous areas do not use a neck strap - if someone wants your camera let them snatch it and run, you don't want to have it pulled off your neck by force, or you to be 'subdued' with a knife so it can be taken.

 

Nick

[patrick j dempsey]

If you are considering a rangefinder, maybe look around at the Olympus 35SP. Its very compact, but gives you Spot metering... Im not sure how well it will work in those dark conditions though.

[eli_chartkoff1]

I'll take a look at those Nikons and the 35SP, thanks.

 

Also, I just saw this, which would require a Rolleiflex rather than an Autocord, but still interests me:

 

http://www.photographical.net/tlr_ttl.html

[bueh]

I guess you might not like this, but I strongly advise against using a vintage TLR in dim-lit clubs -- it probably just an exercise in film wasting. First, the viewfinder of your camera will not become brighter, it's a feature. So critical focusing is next to impossible.

 

The strong light and reflections may or may not lead to optical abberations like flare (very likely), ghosting and halos. Even a lens hood will not reduce this.

 

Metering will be extremely challenging, unless you can use a digital camera for previewing. A spot meter is not that easy to use and a possible source of errors in newbie hands. And it's pretty expensive and handling it in a crowded club is not quite great. I'd rather use a flash with aperture computer instead of trying to nail the exposure with reflective light metering. That TTL prism (if it can made to fit your Autocord) is a gimmick and highly unlikely to be very accurate (or even working) in dim lighting.

 

The viewfinder of my Iskra 1 rangefinder is bright enough for this kind of work, I used it several times in nightclubs, but used a flash unit with auto mode for correctly exposed pictures. There are tons of inexpensive medium format cameras available, many with brighter viewfinders than your Autocord, so take your pick among them, but finding one with a TTL meter that works accurately under these conditions is difficult. A Nikon film camera might be better, as their modern light metering system should produce somewhat accurately exposed pictures. But let's face it: For assignments like these you will find nothing better than a digital single-lens reflex camera, which has lower noise at high ISO than any 35mm film.

[calebcondit]

Actually, if you're into shooting film for all this, a fuji 645 rangefinder might be kind of interesting. You get metering, rangefinder focusing, and they're pretty small compared to other MF cameras and don't exactly look expensive. It's a bit smaller neg than your autocord, but its bigger than 35mm.

[calebcondit]

Oh, and those locations sound fantastic.

[david_m]

You are using completely the wrong type of camera for this type of photography! In fact, I cannot think of a camera less suited to it than a TLR. You need a camera with eye-level viewing and which takes interchangeable lenses. A medium telephoto is probably best suited for club photography. A lens in the range 85-135mm would be a good choice. If shutter noise is a consideration, choose an SLR with a quieter shutter. I would never meter in such dark conditions. I would use a 400 asa film and estimate the exposure. Shutter speed probably needs to be 1/250 to freeze movement and a wide aperture depending on the brighness of the subject.

[eli_chartkoff1]

Well...I think you all might be thinking of a different kind of club than what I'm talking about...in these places I can get right up to the performers, and since there usually isn't any kind of stage per se (or the stage is just a slightly raised platform) there's at most five or six feet between us. So, for shooting individual performers, the TLR design's actually fine, it's like using one to shoot any other kind of informal portrait--it's just the Autocord's tiny controls and lack of metering annoy me in the dark. I'm really looking for a refinement of what I already have, essentially, rather than an entirely different system.

 

Caleb, I'll take a look at the Fuji 645, thanks for the tip.

[eli_chartkoff1]

Oh, and Bueh, you are right about the dimness of the viewfinder, and if those TTL prisms aren't a reasonable solution then I'll scratch that off my list.

[patrick j dempsey]

Meh, the worst that can happen is you'll waste some film or drop your camera. And that can happen any day, in any situation, (esp hiking). People use classic cameras to take photos of their hyperactive kids inside all the time, so I don't really see how this would be much different. Sounds like a fun time. Ive shot shows with all-manual 35mm SLRs and slow film... focusing was more a factor of guessing distance, and since I wanted long exposures for motion blur, I went ahead and stopped down a few notches to give myself decent DOF. It was a fun challege and people wondered if I was insane, but screw them, images speak for themselves. A young couple shooting digital images of the event actually asked me what my cable release was.

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Minolta SR3. 28mm f2.8 Minolta Celtic lens. Kodak Pan-X 125. Light metered from a different camera, lens stopped down for best focus. I used a pocket tripod and set-up right on the edge of the "stage"

(6 inches tall) and used either the self timer or a cable release. As I recall, I guessed the distance from the drum kit to the area I wanted to set the camera, and set the lens to that. Then I quickly crouched in, setup the camera, checked my composition, and let the self timer do its thing. Then retreived the camera. I got even closer on another shot by bracing the camera between my knee and face and using a faster shutter speed. With 400 or 800 speed films, good results even with a slow lens should be fine. Notice f/2.8 is considered a pretty slow lens for this kind of shooting.

[eli_chartkoff1]

Nice! Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

 

All right, I think the Autocord/35mm SLR combo makes a lot of sense.

[graham_powell1]

Through personal experience I would say that Robert Marvin had the answer to your original question. I think that the Capital (U.K. name, same as Soligor in U.S. I believe) spot meter would make a great companion. To use exclusively for your reasons I would buy model II with the LCDs rather than the first model which has a standard meter display. You get a great grip with these as they're shaped like an old 8mm movie camera and they work perfectly in the dark.