Second wedding--charging for it......

[elnoralouisa]

I know posting this opens me to "why didn't you say no" Guess what, I know

that! BUT I have to sit next to this girl at work for the next 20 years!

 

Ok, story.....a few weeks ago I posted my first wedding on here that was

planned in three weeks, and went off ok (and they loved the pics :) I have a

SMALL wedding I am doing in August with no expectations (they didn't want a

photographer--I am doing it for practice)......so no stress there....and a

third also small one with no date set yet.....and that's it, and then......

 

I was invited to go to a big wedding (totally as a guest) today by a co-

worker. We had talked about the photography about a year ago, and I gave MOB

some hints on finding a photographer. No, they knew a well-established guy.

End of story. Until Thursday. She says, umm, you are coming to the

wedding.....I need a photographer for my daughter. The first guy was not able

to commit to the wedding for health reasons. So....a friend of the family's

said he would do it...no contract, no nothing, he is a professional, but this

was just sort of a side job for him....well, he thought it was next

weekend......so he isn't able to do it (or would be in and out--no comment).

She decided she wanted me. I said no way, and then suggested that maybe if he

could come for a bit, that I could assist him (no charge, learning experience,

and should he miss any pictures while gone, I could take care of that). She

asked me what I would charge to do the whole wedding. The guy was only

charging $300 because he was a friend, so even though I didn't plan on

charging for my second (the small wedding), I said $100, and would do the

prints at cost. Oh, she heard all this second hand, so she didn't talk to the

photographer until Thursday night, and found out it was true. Well, she wants

me and yes, I spent the whole night saying this is a wedding only a

professional should be doing (but she doesn't have the money for it), she

knows what my experience is, and I KNOW this is going to be a disaster.

 

All that for one question--was I wrong in charging her? She said her daughter

asked if it included any pictures, and I said no, proofs alone are going to

cost a bit. Also, another girl that is going to help me with organizing

people and such, said, you are charging her, and not including any pics?

Others said, wow, she is getting off very cheap. My reasoning for charging

was, I don't want to be "well Debbie is a free wedding photographer" and I can

see things going in that direction. Obviously $100 is only a token fee (and

is probably already spent on memory that I needed to buy for today), and I

didn't see anything wrong with charging it. (the now third wedding is still

free as no connection with these people, and that was already established as

such).

 

Am I going to post the pictures? Probably not, then again :)

Oh yeah, was thinking I had two months to really work with my flash, etc., NOT!

[elnoralouisa]

If I had thought there was any way I could have found her a photographer in one day, I would have sat on the phone and done that. It's June, not going to happen. I know I am not ready to do this, but ok, I was planning on going to the wedding, and I am just supposed to sit there while they have no photographer?

Actually, a similiar situation did happen. I was supposed to photo a First Communion, and for reasons beyond anyone's control I wasn't there. The p&s pics taken by the family didn't turn out at all, and well, I haven't been forgiven for not being there. Meanwhile, the wedding I did, the family is now willing to let me practice all I want with the kids and such, and the new born baby.

I know this is a losing situation, and I am not happy about doing it, but I don't know whether or not to charge the $100!

[devoted]

Unfortunately if people are paying you, a certain level of skill is going to be expected. It raises expectations - the gulf in expectations between someone doing the wedding for free and someone charging any amount is massive. If you can deliver pictures that will meet those expectations, charge.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

Debbie, You'll have people say go for it and others that will say you shouldn't.

 

I've been cooking as an amature for over 40 years and can make a pretty good grilled cheese sandwich. I even saw how Martha Stewart makes a fancy grilled cheese sandwich and could copy her technique/recipe to produce a sandwich that would be almost just as good. But I don't think I'm qualified to do the catering for a sit down dinner with 150 guests at a once in a lifetime event that we call a wedding. I don't deserve the title of "chef". But I also don't deserve the title of "cook". Should I call myself an intermediate cook, how about advanced amature cook? Could I pull it off....yea, maybe. I could get me a couple of assistants and alot of good pots and pans....

 

Like cooking, driving, landscaping, plumbing, etc.... many people have some DIY experience. There's even a DIY TV network (which I am very fond of). Once you represent yourself as a "photographer" people are likely to approach you and want you to take some "happy snaps". My personal belief is that once you start charging money then your level of responsibility, accountability, and liability has been raised to a much higher level. I don't believe that changes if you're charging $100 or $1000.

[lamont]

Dear Debbie T,

 

Just do it. She has asked YOU, not everyone else and it seems that there is no one else available for the price. Whether you charge or what you charge is totally irrelevant. It is not going to be a disaster, it is going to be a learning experience.

You are very good at your flowers, so treat the Bride as the flower of the day. You need to record her in all her different stages, with all her family in the garden, the other flowers with her etc,etc, and a few weeds as well. Plan, plan, plan, and then attack it with Good Positive Movement. Anyone who has done skydiving knows what GPM is as it saves your life every time. Park your tripod where you want it and use it to define your work space. Forget the next 20 years of who you are going to sit beside and be a different person, confident, organised and assertive. Cover any weakness's you may have in the people management area with closed questions and statements rather than suggestions. Both you and I know that you can do it. We know you can use the shutter button, now you have to use other skills. Divide your head in two, use one side for the techno stuff, and the other for organising the people. You should be able to feel this division in your head. It will be exhausting, and should be very exciting. Asides from sheer panic, the most contagious human condition is ENTHUSIASM.

Just do it.

 

Donald.

[elnoralouisa]

Gwen, I do appreciate your opinion.

 

So, ok, you say I shouldn't charge, and I am fine with that opinion, but then what do I do in the future? I know all the reasons for not doing weddings (which I have stated to these people), but I feel like I am wearing a sign around my neck that says, FREE WEDDINGS. (I never wanted to be a wedding photographer, believe me!).

[elnoralouisa]

Donald, thanks, but really, I DO know I am in trouble. I just don't see any other option than showing up and doing it. Couldn't even say I was busy, because I was going to the wedding anyway!

 

The whole thing was about do I charge or just say, thanks for the opportunity to do this....

 

Oh, and I get my sister to come along and help me organizing, etc., she has MAJOR people skills.

[elnoralouisa]

Gwen, thanks, makes me think again. I was asked at work the other day when all this was happening, if I wanted to be a wedding photographer. I said no, if I had any goal in mind, it would be to do child photography. I hate it when the people bring in the Walmart pictures, where the kid is sitting there looking at the camera. There is just so much you can do with that, and that would be my dream. So, I guess you are saying the wisest thing is follow the commitments I have as far as weddings, and then go out and do what I want to do.

[devoted]

"I am not a wedding photographer." is not a sentence that you need to be afraid of, Debbie!

 

If childrens' photography is your goal and your direction, then pursue that - don't dilute yourself by trying to be all things to all people. It doesn't work, and all it will do is burn you out. As a childrens' photographer-turned-wedding photographer, I went in the opposite direction; the best advice I can offer you is to find a direction and stick with it lest you wind up hating the sight of your camera. Join a local professional association, find a mentor, take some courses...but don't let "Oh, Debbie's a photographer, she can do it!" become your tag-line!

 

As a former employee and then manager of a Very Similar Chain Of Portrait Studios, while the poses and backgrounds of GoPhoto, CPI, etc. may be repetitive and "boring", Yes, you *can* walk in off the street and be a "photographer" in a week as an employee, but if you sit through the training and courses and actually *learn* from them, you learn why the things that are done a certain way are done that way. I'd rather look at hours of Generic Portrait Studio portraits that have been done well than some person's happy snaps of their kid. The lighting and composition of the well done studio portrait are based on the exact same principles being taught in the studio photography classes I was taking at the time. Learning those basic principles is necessary to building on them.

 

Bottom line is, you can break the rules as long as you break them in such a way that flouts your knowledge of those rules rather than your ignorance of them.

[edsel_adams]

Grandma Adam's used to say that "the road to hell is paved with people's good intentions".

 

 

I'm an old school wedding shooter, that came up by the boot straps. First I learned how the photo-hobby worked. Then I studied photography in high school and college. And Finally I worked for several "seasoned pros", and learned the ropes.

 

 

There are many elements that must fall precisely into place. How can you aim for a goal, when you don't know what to aim for, or how to aim?

 

 

I know what I was capable of before I was trained. And quite frankly, I'd have been very embarassed if I people were to see my early efforts.

[kari douma]

Debbie, I think you are justified in only charging $100. I agree with you that it is a small token for the job. You warned and told them you were not a wedding photographer. It is their choice to hire you. $100 says that you are not a pro, but you need SOME compensation. If I were you I would draw up a contract stating that you are not a pro, and there are no expectations for what you are to produce. Make sure they sign it before the wedding.

[doug_axford1]

Ditto, get a contract, hand written that says you are doing this as a favor, you are not a wedding photographer, it must be completely understood that there are to be no expectations on anything turning out and that the $100. charge is for out of pocket expenses, not a fee.

 

You risk a law suit if things go south, even with your good intentions.

[alec_myers]

"I don't want to be "well Debbie is a free wedding photographer"

 

That's a very interesting sentence. My opinion is that it's better to be a "$2000 photographer who did a wedding for free" than a "$2000 photographer who did a wedding for $100".

[picturesque]

I think you have no choice now but to do the wedding for $100, since that's what you agreed to. It is, however, going to be hard to get away from the "free photographer" syndrome in the future if your goal is to be a pro wedding photographer. On the other hand, you do have free will, and can say "no". Sounds like you have trouble with that word, though. In the future, take time to think about what you agree to instead of responding right away.

 

As for your question--I would not have charged her. Then you would not have had to worry so much about a contract, or the possibility of being sued or spoiling relationships. The fact that you bought more memory was something you decided for yourself and was not contingent on doing the wedding. As for including prints for the $100, do what you want--what others think about this is of no consequence.

 

Kari gave you very good advice. Any time that you are actually paid to photograph a wedding, you need a contract.

[timcorridan]

put the camera on "program", don't make dumb mistakes, (like not changing batterries a few times) and concentrate on taking pictures. for 100 bucks, that's more than enough to worry about. by the way, you DO have 2 flashes/cameras/lenses, right?

[belles]

Alec's observation is brilliant.

 

 

Debbie, weddings are a lot of fun. Go, do your best, and have a great time. Do get a contract. Or, possibly even more important, if you're in the USA become a member of the PPA. Even as an "aspiring/student" member you receive professional indemnity coverage. Fall asleep during the vows? Left the lens cap on? Hard-drive failure afterwards? All covered with your membership. Eliminating the financial liability will free you up to worry less, and do a better job.

[john_h.1]

"BUT I have to sit next to this girl at work for the next 20 years!"

 

You have it all backwards. This, by itself, is cause to refuse the job. In the future stand up for yourself.

 

I second Doug's response for your own good. The value of phtography to this this woman is ridiculous. Who knows what her expecatations will be. Her promises are meaningless. Even if she whines about your performance for twenty years, at least you are covered for worse things if your WRITTEN agreement disclaims your abilities.

 

Search here and elsewhere about the basics of wedding photography. There's plenty of info around. Run some drills on procedures you will need to do in conditions you will encounter at the wedding and be able to react quickly to events. Check the results of your practice runs and adjust accrordingly. Don't get too complicated. Stick to the basics.

 

In fact, as already said, have fun with this. Don't get stressed out. Find some candid moments as well as the obligatory stuff. You may surprise yourself.

[erich_murphy]

It sounds to me like you are in a good situation, not a bad one.

I know that others will disagree with me and say that you need to have 10 thousand years as an apprentice before you can shoot your own wedding.

 

You friend/co-worker

1 KNOWS what she is getting into.

2.Cannot afford a $5000.00 wedding package

 

Do the best you can and try to learn from your mistakes.

Everyone needs to start somewhere and coming to this board, full of digital-photo shop-photographers is not going to win their seal of approval.

 

You cannot earn that, until you tell them that you've been an apprentice for years (even then, they will tell you not to take it)

 

Stay calm and take your time. You'll do fine.

The $100.00 is perfectly justified.

[elnoralouisa]

Thanks for the comments, positive and negative. I have asked many people and searched my own conscience, and came up with a plan for now, and the near future, which I am happy with. No, I didn't charge them in the end. Everything has been discussed with MOB openly (and always was), and no problems.

Wedding went fine, no problems at all other than a major time elements with formals in the park (their choice). Wedding had started late, limo driver had to be back, or extra charge, which they couldn't afford, and the place they had originally arranged with former photographer wasn't available, but we made do with what we had for a few quick pictures. We also were up against a major heat problem, but all that aside, it was great!

[lynn_dominguez1]

thats good to hear, i also am in the same situation. I have posted alomost the same message here and had a change of heart. I will be doing my next one as a "gift" as most of the professionals agreed I should. I feel like im a "free wedding photographer" as well LOL. Oh well, im tying to look at it as good practice! Lynn