Leica newbie, question about M Series

[jim_uht]

I've never owned a Leica, I'm a Nikon photographer primarily. But I've always

been interested to shoot with a Leica and have been wondering which M

rangefinder body is the best bet. I wear glasses so the older screwmount bodies

are out, even without glasses I can't see through the viewfinder very well.

 

I'm hoping to find a body and lens for less than $1200 or so, is that realistic

or a pipe dream? I don't care which focal length, 50mm is fine with me if that

is the least expensive. I don't care if the body is Canadian, even a Leica CL

would be fine I suppose, if it is reliable. Would love an M6 but they may be

priced too high.

 

Appreciate any advice here.

[john_gleason1]

"... even a Leica CL ..."

 

A CL ain't the worst of choices, not by a long way. A CL with 40mm Suumicron is a very nice way to start, and quite affordable (well, well under your $1200). (And it's a first-rate lens.)

 

If you can live w/o a built-in meter, an M3 or M2 is pretty hard to beat: E. Leitz git it right the first time, back in those days.

[dead_metaphor]

How about a Canon P with a Jupiter 8 50mm f2? About 280$ total. You've got 920$ left to buy a Leica hat with.

[ken_ford1]

Jim, for $1200 you could easily find a nice M3 and a 50 Summicron collapsible.

[todd frederick]

Rangefinder photography isn't for everyone. If you're used to an SLR working with a rangefinder is a different experience.

 

Suggestion:

 

Why not get something much less costly and give it a try before investing in an M system? I have a Yashica Electro GT (black) that would work great for you. Also a Yashica Lynx 5000 has an excellent lens and is not battery dependent. One of my current favorites is the Kiev 4a (Ukranian Contax) with a sharp Jupiter lens. If the viewfinders are too small for viewing I use a multifinder (I have a Leitz VIOOH). I'm going to list all of the above and more on the Leica and Rangefinder Classifieds on Pnet in a day or so. None of is over $100 each. I think that's a good way to start and then, if you like the feel and operation of a rangefinder, go for a Leica M.

[vics]

I second Ken on the M3 and the collapsable 'cron. I recently bought a 50/2 Summicron dual-range as a step up from my collapsable, but I still use the collapsable a lot! It's a great lens, light and makes a nice small package. Not much under your budget, but it could be done. Like you, I was a long time Nikon guy, but now all that stuff just gathers dust. Good luck!

[john_elder1]

Look at Classifies for today June 13, There is a M2 cla's by Krauter for 700.00. This is a very good buy. The cla is worth 300.00. If I was looking for an M, I would jump on this camera. The 500 you would have left in your budget will get you a great lens

[michael s.]

I am not as current on prices as many here, but a user M6 (vs. "excellent plus" or "near mint" or "unblemished") with either 40mm f/2 Summicron, or either of the also excellent M-mount cousins, Minolta Rokkor 40mm f/2 or Rokkor CLE 40/2 (no framelines for 40mm on the M6, but still very usable), might be within range, or at least close, if you're a patient and careful shopper. Keep in mind that any of the used cameras might now or in the near future require service. <p>

 

If you want 35mm, consider a modern Voigtlander 35/2.5 in M-mount or in screw mount w/ adapter. One of the 35mm f/2 or 35 f/1.8 Canon ltm lenses (again w/ adapter) would also do the trick, as would other lenses -- lenses I know much less about. <p>

 

If you want 50mm, consider modern Voigtlanders again (but far fewer people like the 50/2.5 than the 50/1.5 Nokton), or a used but clean 50/2.8 Leica Elmar collapsible (either modern or vintage), or again a Canon w/ adapter. <p>

 

Gear comes up for sale fairly regularly <a href=http://www.photo.net/gc/domain-multi?category=Leica+and+Rangefinders&sort_by=posted>here on photo.net</a>, as well as on ebay (w/ all appropriate cautions) and on other Leica-related internet fora as well. <p>

 

Todd's suggestion of try-before-you-buy-Leica makes some sense to me as well. Fixed lens cameras like the Konica Auto S2 or the Canon QL17 GIII are real rangefinders, well made, and many hundred$ less than virtually anything we've talked about above. I'm familiar with those two cameras, and both are awfully good. There are numerous others to consider as well. <p>

 

Good luck, Jim.

[richard_pina]

Jim,

Your best bet considering your vision challenges would be the M3 and a 50mm. However it may be more challenging staying under budget.

Good Luck

[todd frederick]

I've used an M3, M2 and M6. The M3 and M2 are in your price range and have bright finders. You would need to buy an exposure meter.

 

I'm walking on thin ice here because we're not supposed to do any advertising on the forum, but I just want to help. I have a fine Summitar 5cm (50mm) f/2 lens with both caps that I don't use on my IIIc. I'm putting that up for sale also for $175. You would need an LTM to M adapter to use it. If you get the M3 and are interested let me know.

[michael_londarenko]

Jim,

 

I don't know where you're located, but there are quite a few photography stores where you can rent just about anything. You could walk in and rent any Leica they have available and shoot few rolls with it. That way you can quite literally try before you buy.

[alvin_hear]

Leica M Camera price guide <a href="http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/mmount.htm">Found here...</a></p>

 

Leica M lens price guide <a href="http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/c.htm">Found here...</a></p>

 

useful to get a feel for overall pricing. Alvin

[alvin_hear]

oops...Leica M Lens guide <a href="http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/a.htm">found here...</a>

[todd frederick]

The rental idea is very good. You may love or hate a rangefinder once you try it.

[Gus Lazzari]

Hi Jim, the Leica CL w/40mm Summicron is a fine choice but the bodies are a little fragile.

 

I feel that the stronger Canon P is a better recommendation. It uses all of the Leica screw mount lenses for a budget price, while IMHO, being better than even the Leica IIIG. (Usually regarded as the best screw mount) The Canon P once CLA'ed, has a very accurate & durable metal shutter. The viewfinder has bright-lines for 35mm, 50mm and 100mm. Plus, magnification similar to the Leica M3! (Almost life-size)

 

Get screw mount lenses like the; 35mm f/3.5 Summaron, 50mm f/3.5 Elmar and 90mm f/4 Elmar. You get the idea, even the Canon equivalents are top notch. There's also room in that budget for the CLA. Should you decide to step up to the M Leicas, with a low cost M adapter, all of these fine lenses are still keepers. (Easily resalable) Gus

[SCL]

I strongly encourage you to get your hands on an inexpensive older RF camera and try it out to see if you like RF photography coming from SLRs. If you do like it, you can begin the arduous, but fun, task of studying up on and deciding which Leica model and which lens will best fit your needs. There's no hurry...many RF users, as their eyes age, continue to shift to AF cameras (read primarily DSLRs & P&S digitals), so their manual rangefinders keep flooding into the market, which is great for those of us who enjoy using them.

[Troll]

Jim, the only RF Leica (from the II through the M6) that I can use with my eyeglasses is my CL. The new Zeiss Ikon is supposed to be very good about that, and if I were buying another RF camera, would check it out.

[jkelly04]

A good user M3 and either a Summicron or Summitar should come in well under $1000. You might want to take a look at KEH.com. They have a 60 day unrestricted return policy, and they typically grade their gear conservatively. You can try the equipment, and if you find it is not for you, all it will cost is the shipping.

 

Right now they've got several "bargain" M3 bodies for $460 to $599. These cameras will more than likely be in very serviceable condition. They also have several "bargain" grade Summicrons for between $325 and $399.

 

Oh, and learn to shoot meterless. You'll never go back.

[orvillerobertson]

I know you have your eye set on Leicas, but the one rangefinder I know with high-eyepont

viewfinder for sure is the Voigtlander R4M and R4A series. This will give you the full

framelines while wearing your glasses. I have an R4M, and it's an amazing camera. My M6

only beats it on shutter noise. You can either pair that with a Voigtlander or Leica or Leica

screw mount lens.

[richam]

No one has mentioned the Canadian manufacture M4-2 yet. I found one with a 50mm

Summicron for less than your budget. It did not need a CLA, and operates very smoothly.

The camera has less of a collector value because of the manufacture location, but is fully up

to Leica quality. If you get a M3 or M2 of 1950s manufacture, you will more likely need a

CLA. I also have an M3, but after using Leica for some time, I prefer the 35mm focal length

as my "standard" for RF cameras, even though I prefer a 50mm for SLR use. The M3 does not

have 35mm frame lines. If you really like the retro 1950s models, I'd recommend the M2

with 35mm Summaron. A neat combination. And I recommend staying with Leica lenses if at

all possible. Lenses are a significant part of the Leica M experience.

[jacob_brown]

Test the waters with an inexpensive yet excellent Voigtlander body. You may want to swithc to a Leica if you ldecide you like the benefits/tradeoffs of a rangefinder, but then you might find the Voigtlander is all you need. You'll get the same photos from a $700 Voigtlander R4M as you would from a Leica costing some multiple of that.

[john_brewton]

If you want to try a Leica try to borrow one from a fellow photographer and shoot a trial roll. Going the other way - a cheap alternative - is just money down the drain if you really want a Leica. The Voightlander lenses are fine and the Bessa is a cheap alternative, but it's not a Leica. Just my two cents.

[astral]

Leica M2 and Elmar 50/2.8 would be my starting choice (indeed it was). These cost little more than 600GBP in good unmarked condition in the UK but are snapped up quickly. Prices elsewhere differ somewhat. If you think you will want to have a 35mm lens IMO the M3 ain't the best option: the M2 is a good all-rounder. In your position I'd be looking at a M6 and Summicron, but it would be pushing the budget. Having started with a Voigtlander Bessa R2 I don't think I would now recommend it. AFAIK the CL and CLE are a gamble regarding future availability of spares: M2~M6 ain't. AC

[james_elwing]

All the M series cameras with rangefinders work much the same, except M5, M6 & later have TTL metering rather than external or piggyback metering. The M3 needs special lenses for 35mm viewfinder, up to & including M4II needs separate viewfinder for 28mm. The oldest is pretty much like the newest for 50mm, unless you get really excited by medium wide angle. Anything wider than 28mm, you fit a finder in accessory shoe.

A good working 'user' & standard 50 lens should be well within your budget, and old 90 & 135 mm M lenses are quite cheap

[james_elwing]

And there are quite a few moderately respectable collapsible Summicron 50's f2 in screw mount, for which you would need a bayonet adaptor, easy to find.