Drop in feedback/number of ratings

[younes]

Is it just me or there has been a noticeable drop in the numberof ratings and

comments in the last few days only? Where as late as last week I would get at

least 10 comments/20-30 ratings/photo, My last 4 posts have a total of 1

comment, and about 5-10 ratings each.

[petewelsh]

""My last 4 posts have a total of 1 comment,"" as many as that I never had one commentout of 4 pictures yesterday, I had the usual 3/3 and no comments. I mentioned this in a similar post a week or two ago but it was suggested that it was my imagination.. I have now started weaning myself off of Pnet and am slowly moving to Psig where people have to comment if they wish to post pictures themselves.. the rating system is a bit strange but it get me the advice i need instead of blank pages with no comment...

[younes]

Actually I find that even the # of ratings (not just the actual ratings themselves) have gone down...it's very drastic too, just noticed it since this past week-end.

[ccommins]

Hi Peter

What is Psig?

Carol

[j.kivekas]

PN is a lot better than www.photosig.com - believe me. The atmosphere there is very narrow minded due to one admin.

[petewelsh]

Narrow minded they may be (must be a personal thing).. I havent noticed.. What I have noticed is I get at least 3 very helpful critiques with every picture I post not just "nice picture","cool" Or 98% of the time no critique at all from here.. I am not saying PNet is bad it has just become a waste of time looking for help or advice on here any more... It is very rare now. After saying that there are still some people prepared to give critique and advice.. Carol I think Juha answered for me www.photosig.com you get to have a free go.. try it and see..

[Norma Desmond]

I have found that I get back what I put in. I make a lot of comments and spend a fair

amount

of time critiquing and so I get quite a few comments and critiques in return. Whenever

someone gives an honest and helpful comment on my work, I

always check out their work and try to comment on and rate at least one of their photos.

That

seems

to be fair and also seems to be a way to establish some relationships with people whose

work

I appreciate and know.

[m_barbu1]

Peter, you've rated 1633 photos, but only commented on 287. Why do you expect others to do differently?

[ldjnewman3]

Thank you all for this posting. I am new to the site and it appears individuals jog through the ratings and ignore the critique option. I also noted the critiques were very shallow. I thought this was the community norm and jumped right in.

 

From the opinions in this discussion I am also going to take my time and comment courteously on the high and lower ratings as well. I would only want the same. Even though I am "untrained" appreciation comes in a variety of flavors.

 

I try to share an honest point of view in my critiques. Is that acceptable in this community?

[Norma Desmond]

Lloyd, it certainly is acceptable to me. I checked out a few of your comments and they seem

sincere and thoughtful. What more can a fellow photographer ask?

[petewelsh]

M Barbu you have a valid point it does look bad. In my defence :) most of the photos I did not critique as I felt they didnt need any or I could not and would not known how to have done better, as I rated them with a 6 or a 7.. I only try to critique or make suggestions when firstly the person needs help or a pointer and secondly some of other ones I rated I do not have enough experience or knowledge in to offer help or advice.. Just to type a critique saying "I do not like this picture" or "wow" doesnt really help anyone and is waste of time as are the 3/3 or even 4/4 ratings with no critique.. I can see your point in how you have read my stats and have not taken offence to it. Fred Goldsmith ratings and critiques are an example of what I would like to see in PNet not "Great Picture" and marked with a 6/6 even when the picture is either out of focus, burnt out or obviously too dark.. Regards ~Peter~

[m_barbu1]

I understand your point, but it's very likely that there are others that have your same perspective (would not know how to have done better). They may know that the photo isn't great, but not be able to put suggestions into words.

[Norma Desmond]

One things I'd like to add as someone who does try to critique or at least comment a lot is

this: In addition to critiques, one may make honest comments, such as telling the

photographer how a photo makes you feel or what (perhaps, subtle) things you notice

about it. I don't believe the critique (and it may be a poor word for the admins to have

chosen) has to be full of technical advice or even come only when one feels there is

something wrong. I love hearing how others react, in more than two or three words, to my

photos and don't necessarily want to hear what someone else would have done differently

(although I get a lot out of hearing those things too because it reminds me that different

photographers have such varying perspectives). I'm very interested in what emotions I've

conveyed or provoked with my images. And if someone expresses that to me, I am

grateful. When I get comments from someone I don't know, I always check out their

portfolio so I have an idea of the experience, expertise, and taste and style of the person

commenting. If I feel they are less experienced than me or if I don't care for their

approach, I put their comments in that context. But even someone less experienced is

entitled to an opinion and in the real world, many naive people will be viewing and

reacting to my work if I should show it publicly. So it is always interesting to hear, for me,

what anyone has to say. And, again, it's very rare that I don't comment on another's photo

who has had

the good will to comment on one of mine, whether I think they are far superior to me in

technique or artistry or not. Thanks, Peter, for the kind words just above! As we're all here

to grow and learn (well, many of us . . .) this is a valuable discussion to have.

[j.kivekas]

I made recently a double decision 1) not to give numeric ratings anymore (yes, some exceptions) and 2) I also submit my photos only for verbal critique. I also try to pay back the comments, in an honest way. <p>

My statistics tell I have rated numerically over 5000 photos and given about 1200 comments. I have received less than 1300 numerical ratings and got probably less than 400 comments on my photos.<p>

Notice that PN offers also other than photo critique possibilities. My net-portfolio is there, I get to see other people work, read forum threads. Quite frankly, what does one need the ratings for? They don't buy you bread or gas, they don't add your flight points scheme. I guess aI could ask whether I really need the verbal comments? They make interesting reading, but I don't really see them having any more effect on my photography. I'd say the most important value of PN for me is the possibility of having a credible net-portfolio. I also like Phil Greenspun's ideals fo free expression. Those members who think it is a US site are in my opinion very wrong. Internet is inter-net, it's international, it's multi-valued.<p>

(Peter Welsh, off-topic, no it was not a personal thing.)

[timzeipekis]

I've mentioned before in these forums, that for a beginner like myself, even the "wow" critique is better than nothing. I think that confidence for a new photographer is just as important as technical advice. The disappointing thing for me is getting a bad rating and no explanation. I can't learn anything this way and it becomes frustrating and it damages your confidence to see a lot of 3/3's and to keep repeating the same mistakes because nobody leads you through them.

 

In a side note, I wish to publicly thank Fred Goldsmith for his generosity and insight. He is the only consistent critic of my material and his guidance has been invaluable. Thanks Fred.

[patflynn]

I know this is slightly off the original topic (which I can't comment on one way or the other). But reading through this conversation I thought I'd drop my two cents in. I very strongly agree in leaving comments of either critical value, or of encouragement, on images that are offered for critique. I do not believe in ratings - I have never rated and don't plan to. So all you'll see on my PN page are constructive comments, meant to either offer insight or to solicit it, or on rare occassion to inject humor with no approach toward instruction either way. This has made my PN experience pretty rewarding overall. So what's my pet peeve? People who add comments to their own images (note I said "images"; these forums are another matter) whining about 3/3 raters. To me there are few spectacles more crass than a photographer, in a community of other photographers, making the public claim that their work obviously and without a doubt can not possibly in any way be considered of a quality less than superior. I can certainly understand the feeling of indignity at receiving mediocre ratings (and yes my imagination is sufficient to that despite my never having posted any portfolio), but to my mind the worst possible response is to call out Mr. Anonymous so as to "prove" the point that clearly the low ratings are beneath this artist. The implied assumption is that sheer jealousy would be the only available motivation for such a thing, and the absence of the rater revealing his identity and explaining his position is supposed to restore the artist's reputation as Better Than That. I see the actual effect of this tactic as being opposite to the desired outcome, and I really wish that phenomenon would stop. I believe that if PN had more considerate contributors like Mr. Golsmith, then it would attract more thoughtful new members like Mr. Newman and Mr. Zeipekis - and then I suppose the vision of PN as a constructive community could actually be realized. To me it is not so much the ratings system, but the reactions to ratings, which is bogging this site down.

[timzeipekis]

Once again, if the ratings system is so insignificant, then it should be removed as a form of critique. I think new PN members see the ratings system and take it very seriously, so when they post an image, which I assume in most cases is not expected by the photographer to take the world by storm, he or she expects to learn from this community of photographers and slapping a low rating on an image without any reasoning is rude. Obviously if there is reason to rate it low, and the viewer feels the need to point out the images shortcomings, then that viewer should take the time to say why. I interpret the so called "whining" about the system as merely the frustration showing through or an attempt to inject humor at a situation everyone can relate to. I think the problem is not so much photographers who think their work is more deserving, so much as self-proclaimed elitists who don't view the work of new photographers as being up to their level.

[patflynn]

Tim, in my previous post I was trying to be careful not to alienate you by seeming to react against your specific comments. That's why I called you a thoughtful member of this community and also why I specified that forums like this actually are an appropriate place to complain about ratings, etc. The fact is I had written my entry and was about to post it when I noticed that your post, which landed here minutes before mine (I assume you are a timezone west of of me), touched on similar points. So I tried to alter my comments slightly so as not to upset you, but I guess it wasn't enough. Sorry about that. The fact is I agree - low ratings with no comments are rude and worthless. And PN absolutely should be a learning environment where people of ALL skill levels can both educate and learn. Furthermore I agree entirely that self-proclaimed elitists are a scourge to the ideal behind PN. So to clarify my observation, I was simply pointing out that whining about 3/3 ratings within your OWN image's comments page is the most noxious form of self-proclaimed elitism that I have perceived on this website. And I share your opinion that this is a problem of PN - frankly I'd concede that it is pretty whiny of me to lay all this out. I'm just putting it out there so that PN members might have a second thought about the effect of that kind of tirade, on new members and veterans alike. It is not an effective or appropriate combatant against 3/3 ratings, plus it diminishes the entire community and especially one's own standing in it. Everyone deserves better than that.

[timzeipekis]

No harm done, Patrick, and no offense taken. When I first joined PN, I approached it with great enthusiasm, and my photography seemed to flourish, then after a while the novelty faded, as did my lofty expectations of what this site could provide to my hobby. My submissions have become fewer and further apart. It really is a shame now that my interactions with fellow members seem to be more tuned to the shortcomings of the site rather than the art and joy of photography. I hope that can change, I really do. Perhaps the next time we exchange opinions, it can be about actual photography.

[ingermargrete]

Maybe the expectations to sites like this are too high and that is why people are getting frustrated, they don`t get in return what they had hoped to get. Instead they loose interest in partisipating. That is too bad. I find portfolios here all the time with images clearly above the beginners stadium, but the portfolios don`t seem to be very active. If this site is going to be a nice place for all levels of photographers, it would help if those with experiences would stay on and share their knowledge:)

[m_barbu1]

<p><i>If this site is going to be a nice place for all levels of photographers, it would help if those with experiences would stay on and share their knowledge:)</i></p><p>It would not appear that this is currently a goal of the owners of this site.</p>

[dee 14]

I have to tell you that my PN experience has, and continues to be excellent. I have the great fortune to have Fred Goldsmith as a regular to my page, and he has taught me so very much, I don't think I will ever find a way to thank him enough.

 

Sometimes I find the photographers on this site to be a little too into themselves, or they forget that we are all here to have fun and learn. Don't we all take photo's for the love of the medium?

 

I am lucky enough to have found a little group of photographers that all inspire to be better, but do not forget that this is still all for enjoyment. We have fun everyday, and sometimes can get a little silly in the process, but we encourage each other, and remind each other why we love this art form of ours so much.

 

I will admit to being a mostly 6/6 rater... Simply because if I don't like something, I am not naive enough to realize that it might just not be my style or taste, so I rate what I like.

 

My advice to anyone who wants to have a good as an experience here as I am having... Keep commenting on peoples photo's that you like, and eventually, you will find people that are looking to trade ideas and words back and forth, either about photography, or just to have fun. Forget the ratings... They are nice when they are high, and meaningless when they are low, so find people that you trust and admire, and let them be your guide.

 

If you start taking yourself too seriously, and stop having fun, then maybe you should re-evaluate why you take photographs.

 

Just my 2 cents, take them for what they are worth.

[ingermargrete]

Darren; I agree with what you say here. My experiences on PN are also excellent and I always have fun with this hobby. That is why I photograph and I don`t think that will change, because it has been a hobby for many years now. I just notice that others seem to get a little frustrated and try to help a little:) But I totally agree; have fun first of all and don`t take things too seriously.