toho and gowland and schneider 72mm super-angulon

[aaron_wax]

I am considering the purchase of a new camera and have narrowed it to 2 brands,

Toho and Gowland. I plan to travel through Europe and am looking for a camera

which weighs little and which can be used for architectural photography. My

plan is to purchase a 72mm super-angulon for its extreme coverage and match it

with a camara which has a enough rise to take advantage of this coverage. Does

the Toho have enough rise to fully utilize this lens? Second, I know that the

Gowland has enough rise or could be built to accommodate additional rise,

however, I need a camera that really locks down. Does the Gowland lock down

tight? I have heard conflicting things about the Gowland. Can someone please

set me straight? I also plan to use the camera with longer lenses. So I am not

looking for a special camera just for wide angle photography. Thanks!

[ralph_jensen]

Hi Aaron,

 

If you have both front and back tilt, any camera can be maneuvered to fully utilize the 72XL's capabilities, but I think you're going to have trouble finding a camera that without f/r tilts can supply enough rise to fully utilize the capabilities of the 72XL AND can handle long lenses AND "really locks down" AND weighs as little as the Toho or Gowland.

 

If it were me, I'd be open to carrying another pound or two to get the three other capabilities, but obviously YMMV.

[aaron_wax]

Thanks for the response. Both the toho and gowland have front and back tilt. My concern is that the I won't have the opportunity to even use the tilt on the toho because of the bellows being squashed will prevent me from doing so. In contrast, my concern with the gowland is that I won't be able to really lock the movements in place. Specifically, that after tightening all of the knobs, etc. the camera movements will slip. This concern is based on other users reviews that they have had this problem with the gowland cameras. The longest lens I have is the nikkor 300m. I know that with either the gowland or the toho I can have a top-hat shaped lens board which will give me 4" of extra extension.

I am curious, what other camera do you suggest?

I have also thought about the shen hao because I know it has more movements, but I haven't heard anything about the use of the 72 with full moves, the weight of the camera is a bit of a deterrent, and I've been told that it is not as ridged as the monorails.

Any suggestions?

[michael_briggs2]

I doubt that you will be able to use the 72 mm Super-Anguon XL to its full capabilities of front rise on any camera that doesn't have a bag bellows. On cameras that use a regular bellows to support long lenses, this means that the camera will need to support interchangable bellows. Do the Toho or Gowland support this?

 

If you go up a bit in weight, the Canham DLC should work very well. When I had one, there was only the standard bellows, which was advertised to work well with all focal lengths. But I had problems with the 72 mm SA-XL when using front rise. The standard bellows could take being smushed down, but it would force unwanted tilt. But since then Canham has made available a bag bellows for this camera.

[aaron_wax]

Thanks for the response.

 

A bag bellows is available for the Gowland, but not the Toho. The Toho uses an eccentric lens panel which allows the lens to rise 15mm or about a half inch. I think at this point the gowland is the way to go assuming all of its movements can be locked down securely. The Canham is an awesome camera, but I am afraid it is a bit out of my price range.

[aaron_wax]

Can someone who has used the Gowland confirm that it either has or does not have problems "locking down?"

[leonard_evens]

I have a Toho and a 75 mm Rodenstock Grandagon-N. I use it with the eccentric lensboard. Using it and some additional rise, I've gotten at least 25 mm rise, which is close to the limit imposed by the image circle. I haven't tried for more because it would be pointless. The rear flange focal length of the 72 mm Super Angulon XL is about 82 mm, which I believe is actually slightly larger than that of the 75 mm Grandagon-N, so the lens should be about the same distance from the film plane. But it has a significantly larger image circle, and you won't be able to make full use of it with the Toho, even using the eccentric lensboard plus the rise allowed by the bellows. Michael is right that you probably need a bag bellows to make full use of that lens.

[aaron_wax]

Thanks for the response. I am saddened that the toho will not be able to accommodate my needs. It seems like the perfect camera; light weight , good bellows extension, stable, and good movements. I still thinking about the Gowland, however, the Canham is awfully tempting. Any insights? The reviews seem to be mixed and the camera is very expensive.

[ralph_jensen]

Hi Aaron, I don't have the Canham (and not sure which Canham you're considering), but if you're open to monorails you might consider a Sinar F2 (~$500 on eBay, plus ~$100 for a bag bellows). As I said above, supporting that massive 72XL at full-rise is a challenge for any camera, and while there are (1) sturdier and (2) lighter and (3) cheaper cameras than the F2, no camera is all three and I found the F2 to be the best compromise in these areas when using the 72XL, which has an amazing amount of rise. (I don't know what the F2 weighs - probably 3-4 lbs. more than the Toho or Gowland - but if you want a locked-down feel for the 72XL you may have to go heavier than those two.)

 

Again, YMMV, but I just wanted to note that there are other options out there. Perhaps others can identify a lighter/stronger choice than the Sinar; I am in no way claiming it is the answer to your particular quest (although it breaks down very compactly, is easy to carry in a "ready-to-shoot" position, and I have backpacked extensively with it).

[aaron_wax]

I checked out the sinar F. It appears to weigh approx. 8 pounds which a bit too heavy, IMO, for a camera I'd carry around all day. I thought the Canham DLC 45 might be a winner, but the cost is very high. I am still contemplating the gowland. Any other insights?

 

Thanks

[michael_briggs2]

"... however, the Canham is awfully tempting. Any insights? The reviews seem to be mixed and the camera is very expensive."

 

What criticisms have you seems of the Canham DLC? For its weight, it is an exceptional camera. Currently I use a Linhof Technikardan, which is more rigid and precise, but heavier -- you have to pick what matters most to you, there are always design tradeoffs. The main reason that I switched was the problem that I described above, which is now probably fixed by the availability of a bag bellows. The Canham DLC (and the Linhof TKS, but even more expensive) easily handles a very wide range of focal lengths.

[aaron_wax]

Michael,

 

I have read that the adjustment levers and knobs on the Canham DLC45 tend to loosen. Thus Canham users are constantly having to tighten them in the field.

[michael_briggs2]

I didn't have that problem with mine. As I remember, most of the locks are screws with T-heads that can be locked very securely. Maybe there were a few things that needed to be tightened occasionally with an Allen (hex) style wrench, but its been awhile to remember the details. I would have remembered if it was a constant problem.

[aaron_wax]

Thanks for your response.

[patrick_tiffany]

Hi Aaron,

 

Not sure if you saw Kerry Thalmann's in-depth review of the Toho FC-45X, but he does discuss some of the wide angle issues you mention, as well as the camera's overall build quality. Might be a worthwhile read if you've not seen it yet.

 

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm

[aaron_wax]

Thanks. I have seen Kerry's page. It is very informative.

[justin_mueller]

an old linhof super color monorail could be the ticket - super stable and a combo bag/normal bellows and well priced.