which one is better? RZ67/Pentax 67

[vital1]

Lets imagine that the some guy handhelds(at same conditions)two shots at 1/30

sec from a RZ67 with a 110mm f 2.8 and a Pentax 67 with 105mm f 2.4, so which

one do you think will produce the sharperst picture?

[akajohndoe]

Handheld at 1/30s the camera, lens, and person holding are all mostly immaterial. The image will not be sharp.

[derek_stanton2]

What DN says above is true, but Vital asked about the "sharper" picture. And, "sharp" is

still a relative/subjective term.

 

I'm going to guess the RZ's picture. Only because i would think the Leaf Shutter would

contribute less impact than the Pentax' Focal Plane Shutter. But, both cameras have big

mirrors to flop out of the way first, so, who knows. The 'leaf advantage' might be only

theoretical.

 

Other factors to consider - I've read that the Pentax, at certain (low) shutter speeds

exhibits more vibration than at other speeds, both lower and higher. As if there's a certain

range of speeds that mechanically are detrimental. Perhaps it's that at very slow speeds,

the mirror flop impact is settling before the exposure is made. Maybe that's the same for

any camera, but i've specifically only read about that with regard to the Pentax.

 

Whatever. Vital, i don't really understand the purpose of the question. Either way, i don't

think you can ever make a quantifiable, accurate, and consistently applicable assessment

under these conditions. Handholding alone will add too many variables.

 

What do you want to shoot in this way? I've seen brilliant fashion/portraiture images made

at such shutter speeds with both cameras. But, they weren't critically sharp. Sometimes

that unsharpness contributes to the beauty of the image, though. Most of my favorite

fashion photographers use the P67 handheld in natural light, and just don't obsess over

critical/clinical sharpness. Some of the most beautiful images i've ever seen of Jennifer

Lopez were shot by Tony Duran with a P67, handheld. If you were to pixel-peep, you

might not love the results. But, the images, on the whole are gorgeous.

[steven_moseley1]

...depends which way the wind is blowing...

[sandra_schaffer]

Any exposure with the P67 under 1/125 you want to lock up the mirror and use a remote cable release on a tripod if you want sharp. Best at 1/125 to use a tripod and cable release as well, tho the mirror lock up is not necessary.

[vital1]

i set 1/30 because P67 doesn't sync at faster speed(most lenses), but i can reset to 1/60 sec, so looks like more human possible. No wonder why this guy never uses flash with it http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/2006_swimsuit/video/06_allstars_01.html

[brucecahn]

I have owned both of these cameras and hated both. The Pentax is a pain in

the rear to load, and if you have to do it in front of customers will make you

look incompetent (no wise cracks please). Otherwise it is a mediocre camera,

which is more than can be said for the RZ which just plain stinks. Neither one

has good lenses for B&W, but Pentax's are better. The RZ also has battery

related problems. If you ask which of those 2 will get a sharper picture, the

answer is a Hasselblad, even with a smaller negative.

[vital1]

is that true?

[harvey_edelstein1]

Hand held at such a slow speed on a 6x7 I would go for a Mamiya 7 rf. It has leaf shutter and no mirror to induce vibration. Also it is lighter and smaller so holding it is easier. Lenses are great and it has built in meter. Should make the sharpest pictures without a tripod.

[akajohndoe]

I simply hate hate.

[derek_stanton2]

No, it's not true.

Bruce shoots LF, and seems to have an agenda with regard to his expressions of prejudice

against the RZ. I don't think you can find another soul who will agree that the RZ's lenses

are not good for B+W as bruce has claimed in this and other threads. Maybe his results

had something to do with the processing.

 

Have to also question his claim that a Hasselblad will unfailingly deliver a sharper picture.

With which lens, Bruce? All of them? Even the experts from Zeiss will state that there is a

difference between the various Hassy lenses/focal lengths/models. Are we supposed to

believe that all of them are superior to all Mamiya lenses? It's telling that this person

wasn't able to learn how to load either camera. If you're used to only sheet film, i suppose

you might have a temporary problem. But, a reasonable person should be able to learn.

 

From what Bruce has to say, it seems unimaginable that the RZ and the P67 have been the

most popular MF cameras among the best commercial and fashion photographers over the

past 25 years.

 

Back to Vital-

I still don't know what you want to do. Now, you're asking about Flash Sync? And, SI

Swimsuit photographers? You can use flash with the Pentax. Lots of people have. The only

thing to think about is that you don't have too much ambient light in the studio, or you

may get ghosting if you're using it handheld or the subject is moving. But, that's not such

a big issue in practice. I used one with Profoto strobes, and never had a problem. I would

always turn off the houselights anyway, though. In the 90s-and later, a lot of fashion guys

were shooting with HMI lighting (constant source), so that was even more irrelevant. The

RZ is more 'versatile' in that respect, but in practice, for me, that difference was

unimportant. What may be very important is if you want to use flash outdoors, or to

balance flash with ambient light. In that case, you certainly want a Leaf shutter and its

higher speed sync.

 

[Which Model video clip shows the Pentax?]

[jeff_drew4]

Let's see, at nearly $2/exposure, do I mount camera on a tripod, meter and compose carefully or do I want to try handholding for a few moments while metering & composing? Or do I wanna just blast away like it was my 35mm or new DSLR? Hmm. I prefer slow, careful and deliberate. My P67 shots are usually very sharp. I've used both Pentax & Mamiya commercially for work, and never could handle the RB/RZ handheld. The "log" status forced me into tripods. The P67 is easier to handhold, but why fight with it? Invest in a good tripod with quick release and either camera will be excellent. Both systems lenses are generally excellent when properly anchored.

[vital1]

well if you have time you can see the pics from the photoshootings too. Raphael mazzuco almost always will be using a P67 with natural light. see this http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/2006_swimsuit/vr/3446.html it's a 360 photos, so you can see the setup also, and walter loos jr uses RZ67 sometimes with strobes. Take a look and have fun!

[derek_stanton2]

You should check out Mazzucco's personal website. He's fantastic. Virtually everything

shot with the P67. But, why do you think he's shooting at 1/30? I still don't understand the

purpose of this question. Mazzucco shoots a lot of ISO 400 print film. On the beach, i'm

pretty sure he's not shooting at 1/30.

 

http://www.miconworldwide.com/

 

Other 'notables' who shoot P67 and RZs handheld:

Bruce Weber, Herb Ritts, Sante D'Orazio, Tony Duran, Steven Meisel. Mario Testino uses

the P67, but i see him locking it down on a very sturdy tripod most of the time.

 

Perhaps you could spell out your intentions/needs more specifically?

[dave_cheng1]

A picture tells more than many words can. Here is a handhled shot by a pentax 67II 90mm lens at medium/low shutter speed. I will not hesitate to shoot at 1/60th or even 1/30th handholding my Pentax 67II if I need to. The mirror or shutter vibration issue of Pentax 67 is over exaggerated. When you shoot any MF camera at 1/60th or 1/30th there will be always an issue about camera shack. The steadiness of your hands is a more critical factor to image blurring at this speed.<div></div>

[vital1]

never mind Derek :)

[vital1]

here's the video that mazzuco is using a pentax67 without flash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT2qJ-soKII enjoy if you like pentax :)

[vital1]

and here one with RZ67 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBrt1awXim4

[james_jensen]

Vital...

 

do you enjoy stirring the pot? You ask a question like that..? What do you think the

answer should be? the Mamiya RZ owners will sound off as well as the Pentax67 owners...

 

I don't know of photographer who would recommend taking pictures at less than 1/60 and

if you made a living doing it way hand hold? get a tripod and do it right.

 

What if you had an itch while holding the Pentax? it would be blurry....