Tamron 90 macro and 1.4 tele?

[louis_greene]

I am looking for a good Macro lens for photography of my fish tank (coral). I

recall that the Tamron 90 was very sharp and is on sale at B&H cheeper than

the Canon 100mm. Can the 1.4 Canon convertor be used on the Tamron or will I

need to get the Canon 100mm? I would like to have the added flexibilty of

using the converter if possible. ANyone know if they have different minimal

focusing ranges?

[brucecyr]

Tamron 90 and Canon 1.4X TC are a no go. Not sure this is a smart combo anyway unless you already own the TC -- you can get great albeit manual 200mm lenses plus EOS adapter for less than the price of the TC and will produce better IQ. For example, Nikon AI(S) 200mm f4. Indeed, for close up focal distances less than 11ft, the old Canon FD 200mm f4 is very good lens also and it can't be more than the Nikon, which runs $90-$130. FD-EOS adapter will run $30-$40 -- screw out the optical unit and put them together. Add extension tubes for closer focus. With Kenko 68mm I get about 1:1.3, although its a bit unwieldy.

[andre_reinders]

If I remember right - the Canon TCs only work on Canon L glass. There maybe some exceptions to that rule, however I doubt they work on any 3rd party lenses.

 

I just bought a Canon EF 85mm f1.8 lens and entry level Tamron 1.4x TC. I chose the Tamron because of the price and also from the research I did, I felt that most 1.4x TCs did a good job, it is when you got to the 2x that the quality really becomes important.

 

While I didn't find this info online anywhere, the Tamron TC manual said it is best used with prime lenses from 50mm to 135mm. I haven't done much 'testing' of the TC specifically, but it works with all my lenses (50mm, 28-105, 12-24, 85mm) and so far none of the images from my Canon 85mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.8 have jumped out at me as being awful, so far so good.

[istvan_sandor]

You cannot directly mount the the Canon TC on the Tamron however, if you put an extension tube between the two it should work fine.

[lester_wareham]

"You cannot directly mount the the Canon TC on the Tamron however, if you put an extension tube between the two it should work fine."

 

And the same for the Canon 100mm macro also.

[brucecyr]

"And the same for the Canon 100mm macro also."

 

Yes, but, again if you don't already own the 1.4X TC, it might not be worth doing this because, at least with the Tamron and 12mm of extension, your max focusing distance is less than a meter. At the closest focus you get about 1.6:1 magnification. But with a set of Kenko tubes you can get better than 1.9:1 and better image quality. And the tubes cost a fraction of the TC.

 

It all depends on whether you already have the TC and what you want to do.

[lester_wareham]

"At the closest focus you get about 1.6:1 magnification. But with a set of Kenko tubes you can get better than 1.9:1 and better image quality. And the tubes cost a fraction of the TC. "

 

That is true, of course the tubes loose infinity focus too.

 

If I want more than 1:1 I use my MP-E 65mm normally. I do sometimes use the 100mm macro with a EF 2X in this way. The advantage over tubes is more magnification at a given focus distance as the distance does not change. This works fairly well but it might be nice to add the 180mm macro sometime if I ever have that much cash to splash again.

 

BTW I had problems with poor lock reliability with Kenko tubes (nearly lost the 100mm macro and a 300mm f4 IS becaus eof them) and change to the much better made Canon ones. I must say this does not seem to be general experience.

[brucecyr]

"BTW I had problems with poor lock reliability with Kenko tubes (nearly lost the 100mm macro and a 300mm f4 IS becaus eof them) and change to the much better made Canon ones. I must say this does not seem to be general experience."

 

Actually it is my experience too but I must soldier on nonetheless. Maybe I can trade my Canon 2X TC for a set of Canon tubes :-)

[brucecyr]

PS: To clarify: It seems the Kenko locks respond to the slightest brush, making it easy to lose engagement inadvertently in the midst of shooting. So far the threat was greatest to a Vivitar 100mm macro, which scarcely cost more than the tubes. I may have to reassess things now that I'm working with the Tamron.

[lester_wareham]

"To clarify: It seems the Kenko locks respond to the slightest brush, making it easy to lose engagement inadvertently in the midst of shooting. ... I may have to reassess things now that I'm working with the Tamron."

 

Yes, in addition to weak release locks the torque required to turn the lens was near zero also.

 

When my 300 f4 IS fell off it fell into sand, some of which got inside but I (hope) I have cleared it all out. A few mins earlier and the lens would have gone into mash water.

 

On that basis I decided I just could not afford the potential cost of the Kenkos.

[brucecyr]

I hope the OP has had his question answered at this point! If not, please post back for further clarification etc. Not everyone understands that a bit of gentle topic management might be required to get us to stick to the point :-)

[brucecyr]

"Yes, in addition to weak release locks the torque required to turn the lens was near zero also."

 

I'm still using the Kenko tubes because I don't have as much at stake as you, but it might be worth noting their defects for potential buyers. As you note, they don't fit tightly. Indeed, with two tubes joined, I can exert enough force that a sheet of printing paper can slide between their joints. I don't know if you and I just got a set of tubes far from the norm, but I suspect they're not made in a six sigma environment :-)

 

You pay your money and take your choices.

[awindsor]

Lester mentioned in passing the big advantage of using a teleconvertor which is that magnification is increased without having to decrease working range. You get 1.4x at the same distance you previously got 1x at (modulo the slight effect of the extension tube required to combine the two).

 

You get high magnification with the tubes but the working distance is small. I own the Kenko tubes, the 1.4x TC, and the Tamron 90mm though I have never mounted the TC on the Tamron.

 

My Kenko tubes fit tightly.

[brucecyr]

"My Kenko tubes fit tightly."

 

So do mine now! I stretched Scotch wrapping tape across the lens mount ends and cut around it. It took two pieces to span each surface. You need a very sharp blade, like a razor rather than a box cutter, to make fine cuts. Assemble the tubes and fit the end caps and trim any extrusions. A single span of very wide tape would be even better, but I made use of what I had at hand.

 

This make-shift solution does provide snug fits, which suggests just how much slack was in my tubes. Longevity is an open question, but its only a 10 minute operation now that I know how to do it.

 

I built up three equi-spaced Scotch tape bridges on my old Canon FD 70-150 f4.5 push-pull zoom over two decades ago to counteract its tendency to slide, and those same bridges are still functional today!

[louis_greene]

Seems like my last response was not posted..... you can't use the Canon 1.4 tele on the Canon 100 macro either? If that is the case I hear the Tamron is as good if not better that the Canon and cheaper too. The reason for wanting to use the Tele is that the shots will be into a fishtank. The tank has a depth of 18 inches fron to back. I may want to get something way in the back (and since I can only et within 18 inches) I thought it would be nice to increase my reach with the Tele. Don't know if the extension tubes would do that for me.

[louis_greene]

and yes I do have a 1.4 Tele already......

[brucecyr]

Well, yes, then with a 12mm extension tube between the lens and body you should be able to reach the back of the tank. However, I'm not certain you will need the extension or TC. Best to try before buying. The issue is the potential magnifying effects of the water, but I'm not sure how relevant that might be if the lens is not immersed itself. You might want to browse the archives to see if you can find any tips on aquarium/fish tank techniques. None of my close-up books seems to deal with regular aquariums, only micro aquariums for miniature subjects.

 

1:1 working distance from the front of the lens is under 4".

 

BTW, I got my Tamron on eBay from Cameta Cameras for about $330, which is cheaper than B&H and no MIR hassle to worry about. It is, however, an international version, which means no warranty, so I bought a seven year Mack warranty offered by Cameta for $30. The lens is superb but I don't regret getting the warranty for my peace of mind. Ordinarily I don't buy extended warranties, but this was the exception that proves the rule.

[brucecyr]

BTW, extension tubes won't help get stuff further out -- they facilitate magnification by getting the lens to focus closer to the subject, which the opposite of what you want to do.

[lester_wareham]

Macrophotography: Learning from a Master - Gilles Martin (Photographer), Ronan Loaec http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0810991179/202-0276924-3679873?%5Fencoding=UTF8 has some tips for aquariums but these are often modified for photography or special build.

 

A simple trick (I have not tried myself) is to use a sheet of glass to confine the subject to a limited tank depth.

[louis_greene]

Thanks for all the imput. Seems like I ahve some more reading to do. Looks also like I'll need to be moving things around in the tank to get the shot I want. Yes, closer focusing will n ot help me. I'll need the reach.

[brucecyr]

Lester's last post reminded me of the aquarium photography trick I had heard about -- using a sheet of glass to limit fish movement. You can also try it with vertical sheets to delimit the DOF needed. I think a problem is getting enough light to stop motion without causing glare and, of course, cooking the subject :-)

[lester_wareham]

"You can also try it with vertical sheets to delimit the DOF needed."

 

That was what I was meaning in fact. On the lighting the book reference (p215) suggests having two flashes at an angle to ensure no light is reflected into the lens, 45 degrees.

 

It shows a special tank with the verticle dividing glass and the subject at the front of the tank with a vegative background either inside or outside the tank to provide a good backdrop (the outside one can be lit seperatly).