Any M5 Users out there?

[msitaraman]

I realized that we never see anything on the M5 in this forum and that it is a camera I know nothing about, at all. Are there any M5 users out there? Are some of you also M4/M6/M7/M2/M3 users? What is the M5 like to use? How does it handle? Does it handle better with some of Leicas large lenses such as the 75/1.4? What is the viewfinder like?

[tony_salce]

Mani, I don't use an M5 ( I use an M3 ) but I'm told by Sherry

Krauter that it is the best user M camera. It certainly has the best

metering system. I am hoping to acquire one. If you want one you

should seek out one with a serial number of greater than 134....

 

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Regards,

 

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Tony Salce

[frank_bunnik]

I used an M5 a couple of years ago and really liked the camera. A

very good lightmeter, very good viewfinder, 35, 50, 90 & 135mm

frames. Much better than the M 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6. Wonderfully crafted,

a dream to use and to have.

 

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Frank

[fran__ois_p._weill]

I had an M5,

 

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I rate it the best all mechanical manual camera I ever had...

 

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Finder magnification is 0.72 and will properly focus any Leica lens.

 

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The only bad point about it is the collectors recently re-discovered

it and the price are high ($ 1000 is the minimum here) and the mint

cameras fewer and fewer on the market (at least in France).

 

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Mine died of a broken shutter roller bearing: economically

impossible to repair (cost as much a mint second hand body)...

 

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I sorely miss it because I litterally loved that camera but after

trying a brand new Hexar RF and considering the delays to find

another M5 in mint conditions, I bought the Hexar RF instead.

 

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Functionally, my choice was validated by experience as only the

Noctilux and the f/1.4 75 mm Summilux seem to be tricky to use fully

open on the Hexar RF and with some use even the 135 mm frame in the

Hexar is not a liability. At least the Hexar RF has a guarantee.

 

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But if you can find a mint M5, do not hesitate too much to buy it,

you won't regret your money.

 

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Friendly

 

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François P. WEILL

[karl_georg_wolf]

Hello Mani,

 

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I own a black 3-lug M5 since 1976. After I got the M6 ten years

later I prefered the newer camera for my day to day shooting. But

used the M5 with much delight occasionally however. Although still

working alright IMO I sent it in last October for the M-camera-check

to LEICA AG.

 

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They found something wrong with the M5 shutter and wanted to replace

the curtains and do an CLA for EUR 800,00 altogether. Puh ...

 

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I had it delivered back unchanged (at no cost to me) and it still

goes strong. Will have it done only when it is really down. But the

good thing was: they cleaned the v/f, aligned the rangefinder and it

worked much smoother than before. There was a tiny CLA done for free.

Thank you LEICA AG.

 

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Should you decide to get one: it´s a great camera and should be more

than just a back up. CLA prices are somewhat higher than with the

normal LEICA M. So be craful what you buy.

 

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The battery issue is also to consider of course. PX625s are out.

There are alternatives however.

 

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Best wishes

[karl_georg_wolf]

Hello Mani,

 

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I own a black 3-lug M5 since 1976. After I got the M6 ten years

later I prefered the newer camera for my day to day shooting. But

used the M5 with much delight occasionally however. Although still

working alright IMO I sent it in last October for the M-camera-check

to LEICA AG.

 

<p>

 

They found something wrong with the M5 shutter and wanted to replace

the curtains and do an CLA for EUR 800,00 altogether. Puh ...

 

<p>

 

I had it delivered back unchanged (at no cost to me) and it still

goes strong. Will have it done only when it is really down. But the

good thing was: they cleaned the v/f, aligned the rangefinder and it

worked much smoother than before. There was a tiny CLA done for free.

Thank you LEICA AG.

 

<p>

 

Should you decide to get one: it´s a great camera and should be more

than just a back up. CLA prices are somewhat higher than with the

normal LEICA M. So be craful what you buy.

 

<p>

 

The battery issue is also to consider of course. PX625s are out.

There are alternatives however.

 

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To your last remark: yes, the bigger lenses handle somehow better

with the M5. The Tele-Elmar and the 75 mm LUX I have match the body

size somehow better than the smaller LEICA Ms.

 

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Best wishes

[bill_barton]

I purchased a M-5 on a dealer special back in 1973 when I was working

in a camera shop. It was my most used Leica body until a month ago when

I picked up the Hexar RF. Now I have two "brick" looking camera bodies,

if you can find a M-5 at a reasonable price I would say pick it up. I

love the meter and the shutter speed dial that overhangs the ft of the

camera, really makes it easy to use....

 

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wbill

[carlin]

Just a few more tidbits about

the M5 - one of the few M's to

have shutter speeds visible in

the finder, and very convenient

to change with the 'lip' on the

front...balances very well with

some of the larger lenses like

the Summilux 50 and 75 (tho' no

frameline). However, you may

not meter wide open with the

Noctilux f/1. The reading will

be inaccurate. Apparently the

design was not out yet, and the

wide aperture throws off the

meter cell. All you need to do is

stop down to 1.4 and re-meter. I

would assume the 1.2 Noctilux

would be fine as it was out at

the same time as the M5, but

those lenses are a little more

than hard to come by...

 

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Do get one over 134xxxx..Sherry

says the early ones are 'weak'

and there were some design

tweaks that helped the

reliability of the camera.

Despite its being metal and

glass and plastic, I too love this

camera and wouldn't sell mine

(chrome one)! Some of you

would freak if using it next to

the classic M's...it needs to be

taken on its own terms, a very

different beast, but worth the

effort.

[jay_goldman4]

Here is a comparison of the M5 and the M6 which I posted last

year

I used them side by side for about six years and finally settled

on the M5.

A lot of it has to do with personal shooting style.

I like to work in the aperture priority mode on my M�s, i.e., choose

the f-stop and depth of field ( if I�m just walking around), and then

use the meter to set the shutter speed. This is harder to do with

the M6 since the meter doesn�t work when the shutter is set at

intermediate stops.

I also like to know what my settings are. With the M5, I choose

the f-stop and I SEE the shutter speed in the viewfinder (except

under EXTREMELY low light levels). Having the meter needles

cross on a line is very quick and sure. Moreover, the

overhanging meter dial can be moved very easily with your

shutter release find. With the M6, it takes a while to balance the

two red arrows although there are tricks which can make it very

fast, and you only know your setting by removing your eye from

the finder (similar annoyance with my classic Hexar). I�ve never

used the M6 TTL with the middle stripe to tell you when you are

right on. Some people find the bright arrows on the M6

distracting in low light and they can sometimes be very hard to

see in very bright light.

The M5 has a narrower angle meter than the M6 and it is easier

to know exactly what you are metering. Ever since I acquired

behind the lens metering, I also acquired the bad habit of

metering every shot. the M5 is quicker for this.

The M5 has the old style frameline, which are much better than

the M6, but maybe not so critical if you don�t go longer than the

50.

There is a much better way to load the M5 than the way Leica

describes (which often leads to misloading). If you get the

camera , write and I will describe it to you.

The M5 feels larger in the hand than the M6 (it only weighs 3

ounces more) and some like or love it and others hate it. Before

deciding, try an M5 .

If the M6 had the M5 metering and overhanging shutter dial, I

would give up the M5 in a shot. I love the feel of the classic

M2,3,4.

The M5 uses the old mercury batteries. I still have a supply for

myself. I also have the MR? adapter which, is a tiny voltage

regulator, thy lets you put a 76 battery inside it and cuts the

power to 1.35 volts (costs about $30). Leica says that the Wien

battery is better, but the adapter seems to work fine. Maybe it�s

more critical with slow slide film (which I not longer use).

On a two week trip to Japan, I used the M5 and M6 on alternate

days and saw no difference in the results, but the M5 was

handling was preferable.

 

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I should add that I have used the Hexar RF and just got a Bessa

R2, which because of its light weight and bright viewfinder may

end up as my primary M mounr camera.

[Troll]

I sold my M5 because the meter was too eratic for Kodachrome. Also,

the truncated shape didn't quite "feel" right. I believe that if

used with one of the current body grips it would be the most

ergonomic Leica of all. I loved the shutter speed dial location and

speed visible in the finder. Bring it back with the current metering

system and I'd buy one tomorrow -- no, make that today!

[cing_dao_kan1]

There have been some discussiona on the topic not too long

ago on this forum as I remembered. But I think Jay summarized

the comparison between the M6 and M5 very well in the above

post. I have used the M5 for more than two years I think it is a

wonderful user. But if you decided to try one, use it alone for a

trip or an outing and don�t mix it with the M6 as they are very

different. The shutter mechanism on the M5 is also different and

it is quieter compared with classic M�s. It is a pity the M5 has

been collectors� item rather than users�.

[cing_dao_kan1]

I forgot to add that the viewfinder of my M5 was modified by

Sherry K with the 75 frame line. I use the Summilux 75 on the

M5 almost exclusively. The larger M lenses are balanced much

better on M5. The meter on the M5 is true spot meter and very

sensitive.

[msitaraman]

Thank you, one and all :-)

 

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I just thought I'd help build up a little database here on this forum

about these obviously well built, gorgeously well handling M cameras,

which always get short shrift by reason of comparision to the other

Ms.

 

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IMHO, on their own terms, these cameras handled very well in the

shop. Maybe someday...

[hoyin_lee1]

For some inexplicable reasons, I developed an itch to get a M5 as a

working camera, and I bought a 2-lug silver chrome version (a 1974

production model, according to its serial number) from London late

last year through a friend, and it was barely working when it

arrived. I took it to my regular camera repairer in Hong Kong, who

told me, "I hope you're not thinking of buying it." (Too late, I

already have at that point, but I didn't have the heart to tell

him.) As he explained, the shutter and rangefinder mechanisms needed

repair or replacing, and the camera had to be sent to Leica for such

work, which would be expensive.

 

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</p>So the camera went to the Schmidt Photo (excellent service--ask

for the wonderful Ms. Cherry Chung!), the local Leica agent, which

sent it back to Germany for repair (carried out by a Mr. Wagner and

his team at Leica, as I understand). Four months later, it came

back, and WOW, it was practically a new camera incorporating parts

from the M6: the leatherite, viewfinder frames including the one for

28mm, the rubber-padded eyepiece, etc. The Leica folks even added a

third lug and had the tiny blisters on the top-plate removed (how did

they do that--re-chromed the camera??). The most expensive item was

replacement for the shutter mechanism. Total repair cost: close to

US$900! (Had to take a long deep breath when I saw the quotation.)

 

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</p>In use, the large size of the camera (which I always thought

resembles a '70s era transistor radio!) that put off so many Leica

users actually enhances its "holdability"--even better than that of

the M3/4/6, in my opinion. The shutter is smooth and quiet, as

expected, but my local camera repairer told me something interesting

about using the 1/1000 shutter speed. What happens is that, as he

explained, the metering arm doesn't swing out of the way fast enough

at that shutter speed, and it will leave a residue image that may be

apparent on pictures with lots of white (I don't know how true this

is--any idea out there?). The metering, by means of adjusting the

shutter-speed and aperture to make the two slanting needles appearing

at the bottom of the viewfinder meet, is more convenient than I first

thought it would be. Overall, I think a lots of thoughts had been

put into the camera's ergonomics and handling, and I find it handles

significantly better than that of the M3/4/6. For example, the

slightly overhanging shutter-speed dial makes it easy to change

shutter speed without removing one's eye from the viewfinder; the

film-rewind crank at the base (a la the CLE) is more convenient that

the top-side crank for the M4/6 (I have to remove the double-

accessory shoe when I rewind film on my M4-P); and having both the

shutter-speed and aperture info appear in the viewfinder certainly

helps one to focus on picture-taking instead of being distracted by

having to remove eye from the viewfinder to check settings. Film

loading seems easier on the M5 than the M4/6, probably because of the

design of the removable base-plate and the larger camera size.

 

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</p>Verdict: as fine a camera the M5 is, good value for money it

certainly is not (as with all Leica cameras, come to think of it!).

The camera is not cheap to begin with, and given the age of the

camera (the last M5 came out of the Leica factory almost 30 years

ago) and its mechanical complexity, you'll be very lucky if you

manage to find a reasonably-priced M5 that needs no more than a

simple CLA. Having said that, I must say the M5 is an enjoyable

camera to use, and a very stable and user-friendly one, too. But the

camera's aesthetics and functional idiosyncrasies is such that it

probably makes one either wholeheartedly like it or dislike it.

[karl_georg_wolf]

Hello Hoyin,

 

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thank you for the report on your M5. I´am glad you also appreciate

this wonderful camera. I hope messages like this do not drive up the

prize of the M5 for too much ...

 

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Used my M5 lots of times at 1/ 1000 sec. Never saw the shaddow thing

you where told about. So be confident.

 

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Best regards

[hoyin_lee1]

Thanks K. G., it certainly is reassuring to hear it from a long-time

M5 user. Cheers, Hoyin

[Robin Smith]

Hoyin

 

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I don't think the 1/1000 issue is real. When you depress the shutter

on the M5 I think the meter arm retracts - then the shutter fires. So

I think you must meter with your finger off the shutter release. I

agree with you that the M5 is a gem - I like its larger size as I have

large hands. In times past they used to say it was the "r/f for SLR

users".

[jay_goldman4]

For those who own an M5, I strongly recommend Tom

Abrahamsson's soft release.

 

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www.rapidwinder.com

 

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It makes the shutter release soft , smooth and quick.

 

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By the way, I have owned many M5's over the years since the first

one came out and I never heard of or experienced any problem

at 1/1000.

jay g

[hoyin_lee1]

Thanks Robin and Jay for the info. By the way, Jay, does the Nikon

soft release work well wtih the M5? Because I'm in Hong Kong, it's

easier and cheaper for me to get a Nikon soft release than mail-order

from Tom Abrahamson.

[jay_goldman3]

Hoyin, I don't know anything about the Nikon soft release.

[michael_pry]

I'm so glad to see all this attention to the M5!!!! I had assumed

that the M5 was the bastard child of the Leica family till all the

positive responses I've just read. I love mine and wouldn't give it

up for anything. Well almost anything. I love the way it meters-just

dead on. The changing of shutter speeds om the fly is great also. I

have been horsing around with the Voigtlander 21mm and having a ball

with it. I wholeheartedly recommend it.

[hoyin_lee1]

To answer my own question: yes, the Nikon soft release works very well indeed on my M5 (and my M4-P, and my friend's Bessa T)!

[eliot]

The M5 is a good solid camera, well made, the last of the hand built Wetzlar Germany cameras. However, it is not all wine and roses. As mentioned, the mercury cells are no longer allowed in the USA and you have to use a substitute. The swinging meter cell on a stalk is more vulnerable than the system used in the M6/TTL/M7. And certain lenses with protruding rear elements can bung and inactivate the meter (eg., 21/4. 21/3.4 without cutout, 28/2.8 1st version). If you mount any collapsible lens with the barrel collapsed and inadvertantly activate the meter, there goes the meter cell. Kaput.

 

So I would never attach any of those lenses to an M5. Obey the rules and it should serve you well.