Big Problem at last nights wedding-what would you do.

[nagya]

Last night I shot a wedding... while I was shooting the post ceremony photos, a

woman came up behind me with a point and shoot. She shot over my shoulder for a

while and promised to wait until I shot before she would. I thought ok no big

deal....you know probably and aunt or something. SO anyway she stuck to me the

whole time, even the private B&G time after the ceremony. We all go over to the

reception and she is no where to be seen so I start shooting the dances and

what not when another woman with another P&S showed up she followed me the

whole reception except this one kept getting in my frame. I still kept my cool

because I thought ok this is the brides day don't make a scene. As I was

leaving the reception the first woman shows up with a full album of all the

photos she had shot over my shoulder. MY POSES and everything. I walked away

because I was so mad and on my way out. Question is What would you do. It's in

my contract that I'm the only shooter, but when do we step in.

[catchlight]

Did the B & G know these people? Did you ask them if they did? How did the two shooters know to be there if someone hadn't asked them to be?

 

I always say, "Two minutes", when the P & S shooters congregate at the start of the formals, then ask them all to leave so that I can have the undivided attention of the family, wedding party, and couple. That would have solved your problem.

 

If the woman had persisted after the friends and relatives left, I would have asked the bride or groom who she was and, if necessary, asked them to communicate that you were the exclusive shooter.

 

I hope you got your payment up front.

[nagya]

OH YEAH I got payment up front. The bride pulled me aside on our way outside and said " Oh I'm so sorry....she was my 3rd grade teacher and I don't even know her that well!" It wouldn't have been so bad but she walked up right in front of me and handed the groom the album and handed me a photo of me and the bride. I honestly think she thought it was OK to do that. She said "I always do this as a gift at all the weddings I go to". GRRRR The bride apologized half a dozen times but the damage was done. I asked the sister who the other woman was and she had no idea. I guess I asked to late, by that time she was gone.

[savagesax]

This has been discussed a few times. Very frustrating. In our contract we have stated that no other photographer can take photos while the photographer is working; mainly the formals and the romantics. The key word here is - working. So if someone is doing what you described we tell the bride or the groom to address the situation for us before it gets out of hand. It is there problem, not yours. At the interview we tell the bride and groom it is for their benefit as the posed people will have wondering eyes, making nasty looking pics.

[frolickingbits]

The only time I had that happen, it was a very cute girl, and she was funny and flirtatious about it, and only really followed me around a bit, so it didn't bother me much :) I have had some people hand me their P&S and ask me to take group shots, which I as graciously as possible decline-I usually give them my card and tell them to e-mail me in a few days and I will send them a link to the gallery.

[picturesque]

I've had this happen to me, too, but since I don't put my profits in reprints, I don't really care too much. Only if the person is truly getting in my way and making it hard to get good images of my subjects (the more serious of the two) do I say anything. If you are making profits from reprints, you just have to be more aggressive about shooing them off. Various tricks can be used, like standing in front of the subjects and moving along quickly but if the person is really persistent, the tricks don't work.

[wedding-photography-denver]

Nothing on this end of things. I would feel a little irked but not too worried as I, like Nadine, get whatever price I an asking before the shoot. No lost sales, just a little frustrating.

 

I have had one person come to a wedding that was not know to anyone. They shot with an SLR (1d2 I believe) over my shoulder for a while. I assumed as most do, that he was one of the uncles or whatever. I later realized it was just some guy making a portfolio. I don't really mind that, but it would have been nice to have been in on the idea...

[mreul]

I had a very hard time with this during one wedding...all the guests basically took over some shots i was taking and literally just started taking turns and squeezed me out completly...while the groom's mother - someone i had never dealt with up till then started directing me to do this and that for shots while about 20 people were also taking shots....all i can say is it was a learning experiance and i discuss this sort of issue w/ all my clients now. I make it known that if something like that happens i can't be responsible for what the pics look like...for instance - the wedding party is all looking in diff. directions because they don't know who to focus on when 20 diff people are taking pictures (actually this looked really cool once - but not usally)....so anyway i've felt your pain....and i hate to say this but it seems the higher end the wedding the less this seems to happen in my experiances...

[john_h.1]

Polite but firm people skills and management is a must. A scene isn't necessary.

 

It is also useful to have to have a contingency plan as part of the pre=wedding checklist. This involves educating and coordinating with the B&G and/or payor of the photographer in advance. Determine if they and/or a designee will intervene if reasonable efforts on your part fail to stop interferance with your duties. If that fails, tell the B&G that you have exhausted all efforts and the results will be compromised if the situation continues. (This is where one of those on camera recorders is nice). After that, there isn't much else you can do.

[greg jansen]

Nip it in the bud. I can sense when a guest is going a bit beyond getting a few personal shots, and let them know as soon as possible who's in charge of the photos that day. What's in the contract doesn't do too much to help you day of the wedding. You need to talk to the person getting in the way (as they were in your case) immediately.

 

The longer you let it go on, the more they will do it. Don't be afraid to be too forward with them. People who think they are doing the couple a "favor" by getting in your way and distrupting your flow are basically clueless and need to be told firmly that they are getting in the way of getting your job done.

 

I don't let ANYONE come with when it is time for the bride and groom portraits. I tell them it disrupts the flow of the photography, that I'm moving around a lot and they will be in the shots, whatever. The time to stop it is before it starts or as soon as you notice it.

 

I would have been pissed at that album thing, but I think you handled it properly. Next time stop it before it starts and people like that won't have a whole Powerpoint presentation come reception time.

 

There have been times when my assistant and I have spotted the obnoxious and disrespectful guest who leans into the isle during the processional, walks around during the service, flashes, beeps, shoes clunking, etc. Basically being disruptive to the service and my getting the job done. This may not sound too nice, but what my assistant and I do is make sure we are a few feet behind the rude guest during the end of the ceremony, and right when the couple goes to kiss we take a few steps forward and basically block the person from getting the kiss shot. It feels good.

 

More and more I get warned by the couple about a certain guest who they say will want to take pictures, and the couple tells me to just let them know if the person gets in the way. The couple seems to be afraid to tell the person to not go too crazy in the photo department, typically because of some family relation. I am more than happy to step in day of if the guest crosses the line. I have been thanked many times by the couple for politely, yet firmly, telling someone to ease up.

 

I have a big responsibilty to get the shots the couple expects me to get. Someone getting in the way is just that, someone getting in the way. I won't have it.

[William Michael]

Learn from this experience and next time: `nip it in the bud` with `Polite but firm people skills and management . . . A scene isn't necessary.`

 

It seems that the mistake made was letting it go too far thus making it much more difficult to reel in, especially with the formals after the ceremony.

 

Bottom line: `I have a big responsibility to get the shots the couple expects me to get. Someone getting in the way is just that, someone getting in the way. I won't have it.`

 

agree 100%

 

WW

[markgooding]

I can appreciate your frustration, and understand that it might make your job difficult - but at the same time realise that you aren't what the wedding is about.

 

One of my friends took a bunch of photos over the photogrs shoulder at my wedding, went the the 1hr place, and presented us with a little album before the end of the reception. Did it affect the photographers sales? No. We still got the album we wanted from the pro, because we hired him for professional photos, not snapshots. But what it did mean was that I had some photos of the wedding to show to my 91 yr old grandfather the following week. He was too frail to get to the wedding and I don't think he got to see the pro album :-(

 

Whilst you are worrying about YOUR reprint sales, or how YOUR photos might come out, try thinking about what the B&G's priorities might be.

[fotografz]

Big Problem? I can only wish this was my biggest problem.

 

I think we all better get used to this. More and more people with auto everything digital

cameras are viewing weddings like a photo op. Managing it is simple if you do indeed have

decent people skills. Humor can go a long way in accomplishing this, both for you and the

guests.

 

If all else fails, a simple diplomatic plea that the B&G have paid already paid a lot of money

for me to shoot this, and they want me to do this shot ... but I can't if you stand in front of

me. To date, no one has ever defied that plea.

 

The way I generally nip it in the bud, is to invite the guests to shoot with me rather than

banning them, sort of actually collaborate with them. If I have time, I'll even take a shot

with their camera and put them in the scene.

 

BTW, many, many times I use the guests set-ups. If I see a group being shot, I'll go over

and take the same shot, often putting the "groups designated photographer" in the scene

with them so the group's complete. People LOVE that.

 

As to albums being presented during the wedding: I can see those making a living off

reprints being miffed by this. But if your stuff doesn't look a LOT better than Uncle Bob's

stuff, then perhaps you need to re-evaluate your work.

 

Heck, I've seen it all ... one guest showed up at the reception with a freaking printer and

was doing 4X6s on the spot. Another did the same thing except he had a digital slide

projector with the ceremony set to music! And I most certainly have had the B&G

presented with an album which often includes most of the reception .... one album

presented to the B&G as the reception concluded was shot with a Nikon

D200 and flash with a Lightsphere ( I actually showed the guy how to use it during the

evening). It was a really nice gesture, and warmed the hearts of the B&G.

 

Get used to it, and have fun ... it's a party, and if you're good with people, you'll get the

shots : -)<div></div>

[sandra_schaffer]

Just goes to show you that crowd control skills and people skills are very important to successful wedding photography.

 

The thing to do is to set the shot up and let the P&S crowd fire away for a minute, then tell them to stop, finish setting up your shot and do your work. If any shoots while you are working, you say politely something.

 

You are being paid to do a job, not be everyone's best loved friend, not that you need to be rude either. Firm and polite.

 

I agree that it can be a problem or not a problem, depending on how you handle it.

[nagya]

Yeah you all are right. It was my fault for letting it go on for so long. I was ok like I said with the P&S photographers and that was no big deal. I try to make time for everyone to get the photos that they want. That's the main reason I was quiet about it. I elbowed the poor woman a couple times because she was so close. But I think she took it a little to far because I was nice.

Luckily I don't make my living on reprints so it's ok. With digital the way it is today I need to expect this more often. I don't think that the wedding is about me at all. That's why I didn't say anything and when the bride said she was sorry I smiled and said it was fine.

Oh and Marc....this isn't my biggest problem ;-)

[paul_sokal___dallas__tx]

Episodes like this is why we have a concealed hand gun law in Texas :-).

 

Paul

[nagya]

Well I'm from west virginia I think that comes with our birth certificates... :-)

[todd_k.]

Here is a nice 30 year old trick the works just as good today is did then. Use a second off camera flash with an optical slave. Explain to the guests that they need to turn their flashes off or put their camera away, because they dont have the right trigger your flash, drain your batteries, slow the recycle time down between shots, and delay the entire process.

[justscattin]

If someone is doing this (it has to be an extreame case) I end up "IN" the shot...by accident of course. I don't care if someone takes an image now and again, but if they are in the way...that's it.

It also states in my contract that no one else can be shooting while I'm taking a picture. Usually works 'cause the bride always warns people before hand to stay out of the way and not to shoot when I'm shooting. I did accidently step on a man's toes once when I was moving back for a shot and he was shooting over my shoulder and I didn't know it. He didn't do it again!

Michelle

[greg jansen]

Right on, Michelle. Most non-pros shoot too far away anyways, so I always seem to be between them and the bride. Accident? Who knows. Don't care.

[William Michael]

> Why you shouldn't necessarily "nip it in the bud" <

 

Mr Gooding:

 

Your point is well presented and is taken. Yes agree it is important to keep balance. I too `invite guests to take a few shots, after which it is `my time`.

 

But there are critical times during any Wedding and in the case presented above, the point (for me) where the bud would have been nipped, definitively, is the Private Portrait Time with the Bride and Groom just after the Ceremony.

 

Not because of print sales, for me the majority of prints are already sold from this session; and not because I am scared that my poses would be stolen or I am scared my photos will not show significant difference in quality and lighting etc: a single flash point and shoot is not going to outgun 2 x 645s and 4 portable flash heads, umbrellas, matts and reflectors.

 

But really because this is 15 to 20 minute portrait sitting is where my assistants and I have the right to work professionally and unencumbered: and also because a large proportion of the payment from the Bride and Groom has gone towards this session and it results.

 

Another key time is the Processional and Recessional; it is necessary to professionally capture the Wedding Party, and to that end, if necessary I will use photojournalistic doorstop techniques to attain same and to ensure that I have every shot necessary to fulfil our contract.

 

A gentle hand on the shoulder is often all that has been necessary to move or remove an over anxious point and shot relative, but IMO such nipping in the bud is appropriate, professional and necessary: far easier to deal with these instances politely but firmly at the time than use: `but Uncle Joe was in my way` as lame excuse to the Bride explaining why there is not a good shot of her and her Dad walking down the aisle.

 

I think many here might feel this way also.

 

WW

[edna_eudave]

Oh my god I can't stand that, I don't make any extra profit off of reprints as some of the other people have posted, but my art is my art and I nip it in the bud. I let them take one or two images and then I tell them politely that that is all that they are allowed otherwise I can step out of the way and let them shoot and them I tell them that this is what they are paying me for. So I think my time today is a bit more expensive than theirs. I have never had anyone get upset, they just apologize.

[larry_moore]

So true that more and more "pro" equipment is showing up at events, I find however that I am way faster than average point and shooter so I keep moving people and groups and don't let the group repose for the "friend or family member". We post in a few days and always do the groups so that sometimes satisfies the immediate need issue. BUT having a book presented of the whole sequence would certainly piss me off probably will happen at some point and that might be the end for me! Years ago I did a wedding where a guest came up and announced that he was going to shoot the formals with me so he could start his business! I just asked the bride and groom who they had hired for the day and if they wanted to be his models fine, I would rest and have cocktail hour. Needless to say they choose me over him.

 

Brooke Moore

[mark_ridout1]

If you are a weak shooter it's a problem...if you are strong it's not.

[eric merrill]

I let them take their shots after I've done mine. Same poses that I set up. I'll announce this up front.

 

I really don't care if others take pictures of my pose. I really do care if they are distraction and so I have a group of people looking in several different directions.

 

If I can't produce better images than the guests, then I'm in the wrong profession. :)

 

 

Eric