About to purchase an M6 - Need M6 advice

[tritchonis]

I have recently become addicted to Leica rangefinders after purchasing a user

M3. I love the camera and the viewfinder. I use it for journalism. I am now

on the hunt for a good used M6 and have a few in my sights. I am looking for a

pre 1996 because I love the all metal parts.(even metal frame counter) I have

noticed that on some black ones there is bubbling on the paint. yuck! Do all

black paint M6's have that problem or was it a select few. I've noticed it

severeal times. As far as lenses go, I usually shoot with 50's and 85's but

there are those occasions that I use a 28. (in slr) Would I be making a

mistake in getting the 85 viewfinder or should I go with the standard 72. I

don't use flash so does it pay to goto the TTL version or should I stick with

the "classic."? Is there any real difference in the metering system. Another

thing is I like the black paint (all my Nikons are black)but also love the

silver of the M3. Does the black paint wear well on a Leica? Is it very prone

to scratches. The camera will most likely hang around my neck 6 hours a day

every day and be used often.

 

Are there any things that I should be looking for when making this decision?

[thomasw]

i had a m6 with a .85 VF. for you i recommend it, as it still has the 35mm framelines, and you probably won't need to shoot wider. but you must check it out and decide for yourself. if you get the .85 VF, and you go nuts and develop a penchant for the, say, 15mm FL, then you can always use an external viewer for those rare occasions you actually shoot that wide.

[colin jackson]

I have the .85 BP MP and chrome M3 as well as a '69 BP Nikon F. The Nikon paint has worn

beautifully showing brass as the MP is starting to do. If, by "wear well", you mean not

show wear with use, no. The black chrome will not wear through, just look dull and

grubby with use, IMHO. Matter of personal taste.

 

As far as .85 viewfinder, I can't stand wide angle viewfinders (used to the M3 since '67)

and am prepared to use an auxiliary finder for wider than 35 mm. As long as you use the

50 mm. and up why not go .85 M6 if you can get one, if you don't wear glasses?

 

You mention that, like me, you don't use flash so the TTL factor doesn't matter.

[john_shriver]

No black paint wears well. That's why they started using chrome in the 1930's.

 

The black chrome wears better than black paint, but some folks think it's pretty ugly when it wears.

 

Any finish can get defects (bubbles, blisters) due to bad surface preparation. Doesn't affect the pictures.

 

Nobody can advise you about viewfinders unless you say if you do or don't wear glasses. Huge difference.

[Bill Blackwell Images]

Since your first criteria is pre-1996, you would not be looking for an M6TTL.

 

The .72 finder has been the "standard" finder since the introduction of the M2 in the late 1950s (a standard .72 M6 classic will have all six [28-35-50-75-90-135] frame lines). Since you like the M3, you might prefer the .85 finder, but keep in mind there are no 28mm frame lines in this case.

 

Black chrome is not "paint" - it is "black chrome." As to the bubbling to which you refer, welcome to the world of zinc top covers (an [almost] M6 exclusive).

 

Also, look here:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00K8g3

 

Here:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00KHMt

 

And here (there are several links to other [similar] discussions in this one):

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00K6nU

[35mmdelux]

Shooting 28mm forget the .85 mag. Most M6 are black chrome, not BP. All M6 have zinc top and bottom plates, not brass, and the workings are not "all metal." The only recent "all metal" workings camera is the MP.

 

TTL - forget it unless you love to shoot TTL at 1/50.

 

Bubbles, not really a common feature. Just check the camera before buying or advise seller.

[aplumpton]

From my experience the paint bubbling is rare. I,ve never seen it. The .72 model is best for both 28 and 90mm (approx. 85mm) use. The later models apparently have an additional meter indicator, which in theory should give better measurements of exposure, but I doubt the metering cell and software is any different (I never was completely happy with the Leica M in-camera meters, but they are better than nothing and use allows override compensation to be made by the photographer). There are some areas where the M3 is superior, apart from the larger VF image and RF accuracy (which you cannot use for a 28 mm lens, of course), especially its much smoother and easier to predict shutter release feel. But you cannot go wrong with the classic M6, if it is in good working condition. Watch out for VF haze or shutter inconsistencies or damaged shutter curtains.

[aplumpton]

....also watch out for misaligned RF images or RF inaccuracy with various lenses.

[pierre_cantin]

Hi Mike

Go for a m6 classic .72 viewfinder . Metering is just perfect ,you don't have extra light inside . I wish , i have this meter in my mp.

 

You don't need the ttl , you don't used flash and with the ttl you have to put at off all the time b'cause otherwise you got to change very often the metering battery.

 

.72 is a good choise with the 50mm . It 's woud be better to have .85 for the 75mm and .58 for 28mm . I take all my pictures with35mm i did buy the mp .58 , i love it .

 

They made m6 classic for more then 20 years most be a good reason to buy this perfect camera

[john_layton]

If you don't wear glasses, then the .72 vf will likely be your best choice for the focal

lengths you've mentioned. If you do wear glasses, then go for the .85 for the 50 and

90mm lenses, and buy an accessory viewfinder for the 28, as you mentioned it will be

used "occasionally." But you may fall in love with the 28 on the M camera - in which case

you may want to go with a .58 finder.

 

Personally, I like the .72 finder, and 28-50 lens combo.

[Bill Blackwell Images]

"All M6 have zinc top and bottom plates, not brass..."

 

Top-covers, yes. But EVERY M base plate ever produced has been made of bass. When the M6 was being developed, Leica tried using zinc for the base plate, but the metal was not strong enough on the latch side. So they continued to use brass for the base-plates.

[james_lai]

Get a "classic" if you don't use flash. You'll save some cash and personally, I like the slightly lower profile compared to the TTL model. Both the TTL and classic have TTL light metering, the difference is the TTL model also has TTL flash metering if you use the proper Leica flash.

 

As Bill said the black finish is actually black chrome, not paint. I think the bubbling is caused by a chemical reaction with the zinc underneath. Not sure why but I don't recall anyone mentioning bubbling with the silver chrome models.

 

The .85 finder should be similar to what you've already got in the M3, fine for the 50mm and longer but to use the 28mm you'll need an external finder, otherwise you'll have to guesstimate what you've got in the frame. Also, at some point Leica dropped one of the lenses from the finder system as a cost cutting measure, and as a result M6 finders may suffer from flare. From what I've heard the .85 seems to be worse for this than the .72. If this is a problem it is possible have the extra condenser lens added to your finder, at extra cost of course.

[35mmdelux]

"But EVERY M base plate ever produced has been made of bass. "

 

I stand corrected. Thanks Bill.

[gaijin]

If you want a pre 96 then .85 finder and TTL are both out. And few, if any, pre 96 M6 Leica cameras will be found in black paint, you'll have a choice between black chrome or chrome. Black chrome wears better than black paint and chrome wears better than black chrome.

 

I have a 1984 vintage black chrome M6 that is still going strong and has never been apart since leaving the factory in 1984.

[tritchonis]

I absoltuely love the viewfinder in the M3. you can look through it as you walk down the street and not knock into anything. I guess for the type of shooting I do the .85 might be better for me. The .72 would be fine but I would prefer the .85. I didn't know that the black on the camera was black chrome. Pretty cool. As far as plastic parts in the camera, from what I understand, the frame counter and the rewind levers are plastic in post 1995 cameras. has anyone experienced issues with this? Having a plastic part on my camera is not the deal breaker. If the camera suits my needs then I will go for it. I know I've got to get one soon because I think about it day and night. my wife is starting to go nuts over me talking about it all the time. The Leica that I am using now for a documentary is amazing. An old M3 DS with a summitar. I wouldn't be able to get half the shots if I was running around with My Nikon D2X. The camera is huge and people shy away. The Leica has been perfect. I can't wait to get the M6!

[brucecahn]

The paint has not bubbled on either of my black M6's. It wears off after a number of years, in the areas that regularly touch something, like a camera bag or your chest. The brass that shows through is beautiful too. My wife bought one with the non thru the lens meter. I do not like it as much. Leica has a spot meter which is very accurate and useful thru the lens. The older type meter is not as useful.

[lee_shively]

I have a chrome M6 and a black M6, both "classic" models. I've had both cameras, bought in "like new" condition, for several years. I've had no issues with the finish on either camera. I don't beat them up but I don't treat them like crystal either and the finishes have held up well.

 

I prefer the .72 finder but, since you mainly use lenses in the 50-90mm range, the .85 will probably suit you better. Add an auxillary viewfinder if you occasionally want to use a 28mm (or wider).

[SolaresLarrave]

The meter in the TTL has a wider sensitivity range.

 

If you like all metal innards, go for an M4 instead.

 

Have fun shopping!

[john_newell2]

>>I absoltuely love the viewfinder in the M3. you can look through it as you walk down the street and not knock into anything. I guess for the type of shooting I do the .85 might be better for me. <<

 

I have owned half a dozen M6s (all "classic") since they were first introduced (five black chrome, one silver chrome). The .85x finder is a real benefit unless (1) you want the 28mm framelines or (2) you wear glasses when you shoot and want to see the 35mm framelines (I can't, at least). I find the focus faster and surer, but having said that there are literally millions of M bodies out there with .72x finders and no one thinks there's anything wrong with the concept.

 

>>As far as plastic parts in the camera, from what I understand, the frame counter and the rewind levers are plastic in post 1995 cameras. has anyone experienced issues with this? <<

 

Your reference to the rewind "lever" is, I think, a reference to the small knob on the end of the fold-out lever. I have heard of them coming off but never actually seen it. I have heard more reports of the frame counters fouling up - you can read a little about it in one of the Leica articles covering M6s at cameraquest.com. Having said that, it's a non-critical failure and not particularly expensive to get fixed, although it would be quite annoying.

 

The specs on the M6 classic meter were changed part way through production, showing a one EV greater sensitivity at the low end. I don't believe that the M6TTL meter was more sensitive than the late M6 classic, but I might be mistaken. In any case, I've never exhausted the low end sensitivity on an early M6 without severely jeopardizing a steady hold first, but there are others for whom this is probably more of an issue.

[robert meier]

Bruce -- do you have the Black Paint M6's? They have brass under the paint. The black chrome ones have something white metallic looking under the black coating, zinc, I think.

The zinc doesn't look as good as the brass showing through.

[robbie_caswell]

I did not like the 35mm Lux when matched with the .85 Viewfinder. Seeing comfortably outside the framelines was much easier with a .72 viewfinder.

[alex_z]

I realtively new user of M6 classic, later production (1995-1996), black one, x0.72. Found it very comfortable with my 'cron 50mm/2 (current). However, with my 90mm/2.8 Elmarit-M (also current), the focusing is a bit of a tough side - mainly due to small frame area. I found I have considerably lower hit rate precise focusing-wise with Elmarit then when shooting with 50mm/2. Recently bought x1.25 magnifier - made somewhat easier focusing with 90mm lens, yet still have a bit more exercise my eye to achieve confident 90mm lens focusing (espacially at wide apertures).

 

Although I'm not a huge fan of flash work with Leica M - recently managed to get through a large family event when I was ought to shoot in a restaurant, obviously flash was mandatory (there were a weak, colored illumination). What I have - a simple and cheap, Sunpack 383 Super unit featured Auto-Thyristor mode alongside all-manual. I did in Auto-Thyristor mode - put the camera on 1/50 (sync), f/5.6, the falsh set to f/5.6 also and went ahead. Mind you, I was shooting slides (that was the camere happen to be loaded with) - Fuji Sensia 100.

The flash unit has its own sensor that is aimed to cease the output upon sensing proper exposure. Being used in some past to Canon ETTL nearly full-proof flash metering performance, I sadly expected all over off-exposed flashy stuff out of my M6+Sunpack combo (the Auto-Thyristor mode sounds so plain primitive comparative to contemporary technology such as ETTL and similar of Nikon/Minolta).

Imagine my amazing - yesterday picked the developed roll out of the lab - stunning. Nearly 100% hit rate with proper flash exposures, right on. very few a bit over or underexposed - the rate was no worse then I used to with all the robustness of nowadays super-technological flash metering systems incorporated into mega$ SLRs.

So, now I hardly can get all the fuss about lust for M6TTL (aside of larger, reprotedly more convenient shutter speed dial) - just buy a cheap, simple flash unit (either Sunpack, Metz or similar) with Auto-Thyristor and/or Manual modes, spend a hour reading teh manual and makign sure you understood how it works and how to operate it and go ahead - you're set.

 

Also, I found M6 metering to be an excellent and precise one. Very useful with zone system. Once training your eye to differ between tones, with M6 oen metering you're set for nearlyy all situations. Get very straigth-forward - meter any area, evaluate hoe far it differs from mid-gray (up to 2-2.5 stops to either side), compensate manually the exposure and shoot away. With little exercise take 10-15 seconds.

Altenatively, buy a small, non-expensive incident meter (under 100$). Makes an unbeatable combo for M6 built-in metering for all situations.

[Rich B NYC]

Alex,

 

Your advice regarding a simple flash unit is right on target. I've also used a Sunpak 383 Super on my M6 (as well as on other cameras) with excellent results.

 

I've never understood the big deal about TTL flash. With the exception of macro and other special needs, I've found plain old "auto" to be just as accurate.

 

Another flash that I really like to use with Leica M's is the Sunpak 1600A. Small and light with just enough power for fill. It has a bounce head but is severely underpowered for that purpose. For people pictures on sunny days, it fills in the shadows nicely. On cloudy days it adds a bit of "pop" to the subject and produces a nice catchlight.

 

Rich

[arthur_tong]

I used to own a "Leitz" silver M6 and had the same bubbling problem on the metal, particularly near the edges. It has to do with the galvanized zinc reacting with the aluminum and may affect all the earlier M6s that were not made from brass. That means ALL the M6s up to the TTL version, with the exception of the titanium version. That's the one I use now, exclusively. It has a nice warm tone to the metal and does not bubble. If you are looking for a pre-TTL M6, this is the version to look for. All pre-TTL M6s have .75 finders.

[DB_Gallery]

I had a Wetzlar M6 classic .72 for about 7 months, my first ever Leica. The camera was

flawless. But...I replaced it with two M6TTL's with flare free viewfinder optics from DAG.

The older M6's patch flare drove me nuts. I use these rigs every day on a long term project

I am doing and decided I wanted two M's since I don't like to change lenses much.

 

As much as I loved the classic, there were two things I was drawn to with the TTL version.

 

1. The TTL flash works incredible with the SF-20. I really don't use flash outside with the

Leica's all that much so the low sync speed was not that big of a deal. But MAN it is great

to dial -2 to -3 stops of light at 1/8 using Kodachrome to get that really great light in

there.

 

2. The shutter speed dials were an enormous advantage for me in both size and how they

turn the same direction as the arrows in the finder. I am about three times as fast and

accurate with the larger dials, much more productive and the dampening is fine, they

never get knocked out of place.

 

In addition to this, the meter works the same as the MP, one stop lower light than the

classic. It all helps as these cameras are for pro use, daily image making.

 

The down side of the TTL is the TTL flash circuit is a bit of a battery hog compared to the

classic.

 

That is my story and I am sticking to it..:-)