purchasing Leica camera equipment

[maxasst]

I have become interested in rangefinder photography and plan on purchasing a

camera body and lens. My objective in this camera is to delve into the Leica

Screw Mount world. I researched the other brands initially for a small camera,

but have now decided to consider only Leica. I want to bring this small camera

to events where I don't want the bulk or attention of my SLR. Requisites: it

must have a self-timer, flash PC connection, and must be reliable. Do

conversions of earlier models to timer and/or flash accomodation compromise the

camera or are they functionally equal with no drawbacks whatsoever? A IIIG

would be nice, but they are pricey. A IIIf with selftimer is a prime

candidate, but the converted or updated IIIa or IIIc cameras seem cheaper. I

want an ol' timey aura of a lens in 50mm or perhaps 35mm focal length. What

models summar, summarit, summitar or summicron or other lend themselves to

this? Lastly and most importantly, where can I purchase this online where the

vendor is very forthcoming, reasonably priced and accurate? There are no good

Leica camera places within 3 hours drive of me, so I'm relying on internet.

Thank you.

[bob soltis]

Being an M user, I can't speak to the III series, but once you decide to buy, you could post a WTB notice here.

 

In the alternative, you could purchase over the phone from a reputable dealer such as Mark Comon at Paul's Photo in Torrance, California; Bel Air Camera in Hollywood, California; or Central Camera in Chicago. All are forthcoming folk.

 

regards,

[james mitchell dc]

Bob, see Tony's post below about WTB posts.

[Troll]

Don't buy a screw thread Leica without first actually using one for a few days. They were state-of-the-art over 50 years ago, but a great part of their usefulness was all the support given by the manufacurer and dealers, which doesn't exist any more. If I were you, I'd consider other options.

[paul hart]

For a retro experience the IIIf with self-timer is an aesthetically beautiful camera that is

not so difficult to use. Fit a collapsible 50/3,5 Elmar and you have a very compact outfit

that can still turn in good results.

 

Bill's right of course about the lack of manufacturer and dealer support, but you can still

get them serviced and repaired by independent specialists. Mine has recently been done

by Malcolm Taylor and is at least as good as new.

 

Add to that the range of good Leica lenses and the excellent new CV lenses and you can

still put them to very good use. However, they are such a different experience that Bill's

suggestion is a good one - and a reputable dealer should be willing to agree a refund

period, even on a telephone or internet sale.

[jkelly04]

My IIIa has been very reliable. However, I would be leery of any aftermarket flash or self-timer conversions. You're almost certainly better off with a IIIf red dial. They're plentiful and relatively cheap, and there are a number of sources for a CLA if required. As for lenses and an "ol' timey aura," I can only speak for the Summar and Summitar. The Summar can deliver wonderful soft images, but are fussy and flare easily and difficult to find one that has not been trashed. I've found that the Summitar is a very reliable lens under any circumstance. As for 35mm, I have a Serenar that I'm fond of, but others can speak to this focal length better than I.<br><br>Uncoated Summar image<br><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/4348038-md.jpg"><br>Summitar image<br><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/5382345-md.jpg">

[kbg32]

I would recommend getting a Bessa R, easier loading, built in meter, and finding nice

Leica screw mount lenses for it.

[john_shriver]

There are after-market self timers that screw onto the shutter button, made by Leitz, Canon, and even Walz.

 

After-market flash sync may be hit-or-miss. If you really want flash, get a Leica IIIf. But do you really want to use electronic flash with a sync speed of 1/25?

 

Another approach is one of the Canon IV models, every bit as good a camera as the IIIf, nicer finder (one window, 3 magnifications), and flash sync. But getting to a PC flash connection is a pain, you have to either get the rare PC adapter, or the more common self-extension adapter, and then get a household plug cord/adapter for your flash. Just be sure you get a model with X sync, some economy models lacked it.

[ronald_moravec1]

Having most of the coated post war lenses, I can tell you that at the same stop, they all produce very similar pictures if the lenses are in good condition.

 

You probably will need to relube and Leica screw body or any M body of that vintage. I love my my 111f and 111c and both came to me as practically unused cameras. New shutter curtains needed to go in both plus relube. They are like old used cars. Repairs are not cheap.

 

The lenses can go on a M camera with an adapter. You need the proper one for the focal length you have to bring up the right frame lines on an M.

[02Pete]

Two reputable dealers of used camera gear including screwmount Leica cameras are www.KEH.com and www.woodcam.com . You can get Leica rangefinder cameras cleaned, lubricated and adjusted (CLA'd) and repaired at www. Kindermann.ca . Most of my experience with Leica thread mount (LTM) lenses is with Canon lenses, which range from good (early to mid 1950s) to excellent (late 1950s to early 1960s). The Canon 50mm f/1.4 and 35mm f/2 lenses are particularly good. So is the Nikkor 85mm f/2 in LTM. I'll defer to others on older Leica lenses. If you buy one of the early III models, make sure to get an owner's manual (try eBay) and learn how to load the camera and use the controls correctly. They're not all that exotic, but might take a little getting used to compared with modern SLRs or digital cameras. While the "sunny 16" rule will work OK for daylight exposures, you might want to get a handheld light meter for more precise exposure control. If you buy an older Leica, get it CLA'd (after 50 years or so of use, most of them need at least some routine maintenance), take care of it, and use it well.

[jtk]

You want Leica so you should have Leica...very classy.

 

I love my IIIC but use my Canon Ps more.

 

Out of curiosity, why flash? What will you do with the camera?

 

Might be better off with fast lenses...that's a justification for Voigtlander.

[SolaresLarrave]

Before sending for one camera you've never seen in your life, try to handle it before you purchase it. It may or not seal your decision. These cameras look nice in the web, but there are some little quirks that may not be evident unless you take the time to see them "in the flesh." For instance, there are two eyepieces in the back: one is for focusing, the other for composing... and they tend to be very dim. You must keep in mind that you cannot change the shutterspeeds before cocking the shutter (or is it after?) or you may wreck the mechanism. Also, you'll need to trim all the leaders of your film, and loading can be an adventure if you don't have much time to do it.

 

In other words, not everything that shines...

 

Happy shopping!

[maxasst]

Thank you all for the overwhelming responses! Such a passionate group! Beautiful images, Jack. These are what I'd like to produce with the lens. I appreciate the feedback, like Bill's caution about support and the countering posts of good repairshops around. Maybe a little background might help. My wife wants to get me something and have it engraved for our wedding anniversary. I can't very well do that to a polycarbonate digital camera, the vibrations would wreck its sensitive circuit board! So, it's an opportunity and I'd like to indulge in rangefinders which I haven't done in over 20 years. There is an appeal of a totally mechanical camera, moreso a camera that is over five decades old. I wouldn't mind trying to disassemble a dead donor camera just to see how it all works. I appreciate Bill's comments, and the same was considered when I purchased a sporty car about 10 years ago. The affordable ones demanded specialized attention, and the Alfa we bought I decided was the best because the mechanicals were very straightforward and the then state of the art design was bulletproof within sane parameters, plus the internet support for this marque has been topnotch. The postings here for Leica are far more mature, secure and passionate than other camera marques. I approach my camera quest with the same mindset. The camera would be loaded with a 12exp 400ASA film and carried to occasional events like weddings, baptisms or perhaps dinner at a fancy restaurant where I'd like to catch the moment in a classy manner both equipment wise and picture wise. The timer would be very necessary to steady the shutter release, and so I can get my mug in the shot. I'll shy away from the attached self timers for now. Why the flash? Well, good exposure to me demands taming and controlling the light, so I use it during harsh day shots to help shadows, to bounce off the side for dramatics, or use indoors where fluorescent is the predominant source of illumination. I'm just accustomed to its usefulness I guess and I find some exposures substandard without it. I am eyeing on a small manual chrome trimmed Metz flash that could match the outfit. But, first things first - Body and Lens. I'll check out the sites in the upcoming week.

[maxasst]

Francisco, I'm not daunted by the film loading ritual, and will never be in a rush to load film in this camera. I handled a IIIA, IIIF with self timer, and a IIIG, as well as a Canon P in the past, and they were in various states of condition. I'd definitely want one with a distinct rangefinder secondary image for focusing. The Canon was the easiest to use, but I guess I want that vintage feeling of working the camera. Driving a Ford truck is easy, predictable and consistent; just point and shoot. Driving a car with no power steering into a curve and matching revs on a downshift with an a weak synchronized gearbox is not; this I drive with feel and with auditory feedback. Bet you can guess which I enjoy more.

[Troll]

As an old Alfa man (Giuletta Spyder Veloce), and Leica IIIf user since 1953, may I suggest that you also consider a Zeiss Contax IIa of the same period. (The old Leicas are more like Bugattis than Alfas, if you know what I mean). A Kodak Retina IIa or Zeiss Contessa might be even better, except they don't have built-in self timers.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Zeiss-Ikon-Contax-IIa-w-50mm-F2-Sonnar-Nice-One-CLA_W0QQitemZ110103972104QQcategoryZ30028QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[john_shriver]

The finder and RF of a screwmount Leica are not inherently dim. They are inherently "squinty".

 

The RF window in a properly maintained Leica III series camera is plenty bright. It's just that the original half-silvered mirror often needs replacing. I replaced mine with a Leica NOS mirror, and oh, what a difference.

 

The viewfinder on the IIIa and earlier is probably brighter, since it isn't snaking through a prism. But the self-timer calls for a IIIf-ST, so that's not a bad choice.

 

All the Leica screwmounts are highly repairable cameras. Yes, they need a clean, lube, and adjust every 10 years. But that's still quite available.

 

Given the low X-sync speed on the IIIf, you may need to use neutral density filters to use fill-in flash outdoors. Or, get a flashgun and use M3B flashbulbs, which do sync at slightly higher speeds, are still very common, and pack more punch than a Vivitar 283. Focal plane flashbulbs (6B or 26B) sync all the way to 1/1000, but they are getting a little difficult to source.

[thomasw]

part of the joy of using my IIIc is found in its simplicity and the whole 'gearing down' in its use. i recommend using a barnack for available light shooting; get a faster lens, use 400 film, sure: but other than the film, exposure and shutter speed variables, learning to work with what's available may make a lot of difference to your photos, more so than trying to add in what isn't available.

 

my two cents cdn.

 

Thomas

[maxasst]

John, was replacing the mirror a difficult task? When I looked at leicas in the past, they all had some issue or another. If the mirror is a low cost/risk servicable item, I'll expand my candidates to include these. I didn't realize that there was a difference in electronic flash and flashbulbs. Man, I really need to find a good book on these. Bill, I have a basic 85 Graduate owned previously by the vice pres. of the car parts supplier in Charlottesville, VA, when we lived there. Nice to hear of another alfa enthusiast.

[peter_evans4]

<p>Flash and self-timer aside, the camera you seem to be looking for is the Canon IVSb2. Its problem is that it's engraved "Canon" rather than "Leica". If you're not so keen on kewlth and want to use a 35mm lens (and timer, and flash), then a Canon VL. Mm, if you really want to treat yourself how about combining one of these, or a P, with the Hexanon 60/1.2?</p>

[SolaresLarrave]

Well, R, I didn't know your background and spoke from my own experience only. I had a chance to handle an old Leica at a store... and it just turned me off. Sure, the word for the viewfinder isn't dim, probably squinty fits better, but then, nothing beats the Leica M viewfinder and I'm spoiled by it. In any event, I'm glad you <b>do</b> know about these cameras! Have fun shopping!

[christopher_a._junker1]

A nice IIIf is fine if you don't wear glasses. If you wear glasses like I do, the viewfinder and eye relief is markedly better with the IIIg. I'd look for a "user" IIIg in good mechanical shape to try out before buying. I use a IIIc and IIIf, but due to the lack of eye relief and squinty finder only with auxilary finders. If you are only going to have one LTM body and your wife is making a present of it, try out a IIIg, it is worth the extra $$, but don't even think of messing it up with engraving. Classic lens? I'd go for a really good 50 Summicron, then a Summitar, then an Elmar 50 f2.8. Use hoods on all of them. All three lenses collapse so it is an easy to carry kit with any of them.

[maxasst]

Thomas, yes, the intention with this camera is for gearing down, but I still want flash. No compromise there.

Peter, thanks for the suggestions, but I think I'll still search for Leica. Even if I got a great Canon rangefinder, I'll still be curious about some of that Leica vintage camera experience.

Christopher, I don't use glassses, and I am leaning toward the 50mm Summicron for the f/2 max aperture. I'm not a collector of fine pieces, cameras are either toys or tools for me. I'll use them for the joy of photography or to properly document. It will be engraved because that's what would make my wife happy. That narrows the list: IIIg or IIIf ST and 50mm Summicron or Summitar ideally the collapsible type. NOW to find the right place to obtain them is the challenge.

[vincent_lupo]

Having used Leica TM equipment since I was 16 (I'm 42 now), I can't really recommend a

screw mount camera for flash, particularly outdoors. For one thing, using it to 'fill in

harsh shadows in daylight' will be tough with a 1/25 sec. flash synch (electronic), unless

you're using ISO 50 film. Indoors you might be okay, but even the bulk of a Vivitar 283 on

the camera's shoe (or a CTOOM flash bracket) will make the small body a little hard to

handle. For me, the purpose (and the joy, for that matter) is using a camera like this in

available light with higher speed black and white film. The cameras are fantastic - I have

at least 10 screw mount bodies - but I just don't think that using it for flash photography

would be its strong suit. A IIIf is a great camera, and there is really nothing wrong with

conversions (I have a gorgeous and highly unique black I/IIIf conversion with a serial

number of 8989), but I understand that some 'purist' collectors aren't big on them. I

would agree that a Canon rangefinder would give you faster action, and a VT with the

trigger wind on the bottom would be a good and inexpensive choice, plus you can use all

the Leica screwmount lenses.

 

As far as where to get one, Sandy Ritz at www.collectiblecameras.com is a reliable and

honest resource, www.keh.com are fantastic, and Igor Reznik at www.igorcamera.com is

good too. Kevin Li at www.kevincamera.com is also a source for good equipment, plus

he's a good honest guy. For service, you can't beat Gerry Smith at Kindermann Canada,

and down in the U.S I like Frank Marshman / Camera Wiz (he really is the Wiz!).

 

Hope this adds something to the discussion.....