Need help lighting this woman

[ronald_moravec1]

The background color adds nothing. Try black valour.

 

You need to set the light so it is coming 45deg from left or right depending if you want short or broad lighting. I would use short on her, keep the main (key) and fill ratio lowish so the shadows do not go dark. They will be darker than they appear to your eye.

 

She needs a hair light and the top of her head is almost out of the frame. Unless the subject is wearing a hat, keep the eyes 2/3 from bottom to top. Do not allow them to be level, although they are not here mostly by luck I suspect.

 

Google portrait and Rembrandt lighting. There are lighting diagrams.

 

This lady would benefit from some soft focus. I will work up an example.

[littlemike]

I've generally been quite pleased with the results I've gotten lighting various

friends and folk in my home studio (read: garage). But I'm really struggling

with this woman. I don't have the skill to know how to work with her skin

texture, face shape, makeup, and dry, loose hair. I have softboxes, etc. She's

coming back for a second session at the end of March -- putting together a

little press release and other PR to help her with her little home

fitness-trainer business. We have a collection of fitness-oriented poses to try

next time, but I unless I can show her attractiveness, I won't be doing her any

favors.<div></div>

[ronald_moravec1]

Little PS work

 

softening the lines in face

 

add some gausialn blur

 

removed it partially around the eyes and mouth.

 

I am not a portrait retoucher, but this is a quick improvement<div></div>

[ni_gentry]

And this is posted in the wedding forum because.....

<p>

Seriously though, a makeup artist and hair stylist will help even the best looking person.

The lighting is okay if you're going for that flat, even look which can be desirable to

minimize showing wrinkles and rough skin.<p>

How about lighting the background differently, adding a little backlight or hair light, or

something more dramatic like some overhead/butterfly lighting or rembrandt, or maybe a

large beauty dish up close for a soft look,... style is subjective, but I personally prefer

more dramatic lighting or at least lighting that adds depth or mood instead of very even/

clean/flat/standard lighting. If she's patient, you can experiment with different set ups.

[emre]

I would use diffuse, high key lighting, to eliminate as much detail as possible.

[beauh44]

Hi Mike, In addition to the above good suggestions you might consider a soft-focus filter. Cheap ones look cheap, unfortunately. Failing that you could do some soft-focus emulations with Photoshop in post-processing. Also consider backing off a bit - perhaps she has a nice figure you could showcase moreso than a tight headshot - something few of us can stand-up to and look great. You might also think about taking her outside on an overcast day or under some shade out of direct sunlight. Sometimes the sky is the best softbox there is. One last thought: Some people just look better in Black and white. ;-) Good luck!

[bruce levy]

I think I would have diffused on the camera lens. It's a different effect than post-processing diffusion.

[beauh44]

Here's a quick, 5 minute hack-job using just the red channel and a gaussian-blur soft-focus effect that may or may not be what you (or she) is after... but it's a little less stark, anyway. ;-)<div></div>

[littlemike]

Thanks all. This was posted to wedding out of boneheadedness -- when I touch the "Forums" link at the top, the dropdown doesn't present "Portraits and Fashion," so I didn't navigate to it. Apologies for the mis-posting.

 

I agree that the background didn't work for her. It worked great for two other ladies, but not her. I hope to learn what works for each portrait as I do more. I've added black and gray as options of the next shoot. I did try moving the key more to the side with varying amounts of fill for her, but it somehow didn't gel. We are trying to soften her look. I'd love a good soft-focus portrait lens for my 20D but can't find one. I will play more with lighting. I did use a hair light for the session, but it looks like it wasn't on for this shot. I have attached another shot. First shot was cropped poorly, I just banged it up to get lighting feedback. Diffuse, high-key lighting? It is definitely worth trying here.

 

Makeup and hair. Yeah. She's paying no money and since I'm doing this to learn, the budget for a real MUA/hair person isn't there. I'm considering taking some makeup courses myself.

 

Once we have some good-looking shots, well-lit, well-posed, then it's time to take them into PS for wrinkle-smoothing and other post-processing. But I want to get a good image, first.

 

This is the first time I've posted something for critique and help. Generally I've been able to get what I wanted from lighting and posing, but my limited experience is being tested here.<div></div>

[edsel_adams]

Your answer is here: http://groups.msn.com/Asktheoleproaboutphotography/joezeltsman.msnw

[sandra_schaffer]

Yes. Read Zeltsman. The problem is not the woman but the posing and the float lighting.

 

Being of the post yourthful skin era myself I suggest some shots with a soft focus filter. I have done this by simply stretching a black or flesh colored nylon stocking over the lens.

 

Try some like that (and the Nylon is not exactly a major purchase) in addition to improving the posing.. back ground and flat flat light.

[szrimaging]

As said, the posing is a major key here. Remember, she is a fitness person, so a tight head shot isn't really what you want. You need something that is going to point out that she knows how to take care of her body. So make sure she is wearing clothing that will accentuate that. Another good idea, and one that might expand your horizons, would be a shot or two at he place of business, if possible.

[frank_skomial]

You need to shoot dozens of photos, and get that elusive one that she will look like "a million", and will love the picture. It is possible to get that kind of picture of anybody, though may be harder for some of them.

 

It is easy to shoot models, where every picture shows the beauty from any angle or lighting. Not so easy for older people or "less fortunate" ones.

 

I was successful shooting some "less pretty" women, with multiplicity of photos, but getting only very few photos that were acceptable by the person, and some were extraordinary.

 

I would recommend trying longer lens to flatten the face perspective, reduce the proportion size of the nose, etc. Try different lighting and see what is best, make her move, cause change in her mood, shoot with fast frame rate, experiment, until you achieve that seemingly "impossible" picture.

[littlemike]

Thanks for all that. She's tough to pose, because she holds her body very stiffly. We're working on that. I'll try some soft focus tricks. As for using a longer lens to flatten her face a bit, the head shot was done with 70mm, which on a crop camera is pretty long. The second shot was done at 56mm. I have some full-length shots that were done at 37mm. I'll see how far I can get back in my small space. Again, the head shots were done for lighting tests. We've collected several examples of good poses used by folk in her profession since the last session and will use them as starting places. I started with short lighting, but her face is quite narrow, so broad lighting seemed to fill it out. Looks like I went TOO broad, and the results are very flat.

[gerund]

You really can accomplish a lot in PS. Might try some soft light in the red channel in levels

 

Gerry<div></div>

[littlemike]

Yeah, I'll say "among other things"! Looks very nice. Care to share what-all else you did?

[gerund]

Mike,

 

As you say she is a sportswoman. I thought this type portrait needed to stay bold and therefore stayed away from blurring or softening the outline. Also left alot of vascularity in the face to emphasize the outdoor look. Blended soft light in the red channel of a levels layer at about 20% opacity then brightened along with bumping up the contrast in another layer. Worked on widening the jaw line and whitening the eyes. Also enlarged the mouth slightly.

For some subjects this might be too much change. My own wife has raised the dickens with me for taking 20 years off of her in a portrait. Some lament that they don't look that good and some love it

that they can. All depends on the subjects state of mind about their looks. Good luck with your portrait. Only takes about 10 minutes in PS once you pick up the techniques. Would highly recommend the book "Skin" to help you with lighting and retouching.

 

Gerry

[leericks]

She is a fitness trainer. She also appears to be pretty well built if you will forgive the expression. I would accentuate her nice figure and as Gerry says keep her bold. A low camera angle perhaps? Maybe some tools of her trade.

 

Also try getting a makeup person to drop by. It may be money well spent. I have found even professional models can make a hash out of their makeup if you give them half a chance.

[mtreinik]

Your soft box or fill is way too low, which results in unflattering highlights on the face. The highlights resemble the flashlight-from-below-the-face lighting seen in horror movies. Nothing wrong with the model, just help her feel comfortable.

[littlemike]

Mikko, good point about the height of the light. Her eye catchlights are between 8 o' clock and 9 o' clock. I was using a large softbox because we were doing full-length shots and I didn't want too much falloff at her lower body, but when we tried the head shots I didn't raise it. Too low -- but since I'm a total beginner I can forgive myself. Sometimes I'm just darn pleased that the friggin' lights fired and the camera was focused and the exposure was good. Lighting and working with models is about 1000 times harder than the basic technical aspects.

 

A few weeks ago I was watching the "American Masters" program about Annie Leibowitz on PBS and they showed her shooting an older woman for a Dove campaign. Her lighting setup was visible in several scenes and I could see how her key light softbox was above and to the left of the model, only a couple feet away from her. She had the model posed, seated, on a raised white-painted platform in a corner of a room with white walls (could have been movable flats or something, but no matter). The result was high key with soft lighting and a lot of fill. Just a glimpse of how someone who knows what they are doing does it is so very helpful. I can't image what it must be like to work with a good pro -- probably pick up more useful information in a day than from looking at all the lighting diagrams in the world.

 

It's taken some courage on my part to post these pictures because they clearly demonstrate how rudimentary my skill level is.

I appreciate all the helpful suggestions and tips everyone has been providing here.

[giggles]

Here is my play with the image. I ran a couple actions on it that I have found and did some minor retouching of my own. I think your lighting is ok, you just need some PS touch-ups. Best of luck with the reshoot.<div></div>

[mueden]

In addition to what everyone else had mentioned... Place camera at eye level or slightly higher for headshots, and about waist level for full length shots. Use a longer focal length if you can. Avoid "mugshots," include more of her blouse in the frame...ideal to frame just a little above the elbows if she is sitting/standing properly. Avoid "cutting" off fingers or cropping to joints, i.e. wrists, knees, elbows, etc. Instead crop to between the joints. Pay attention to hair and wrinkled clothing...better yet show a mirror to her between changing poses, she'll immediately try fix the things that bothers her. Keep an eye out for those things and address them yourself or show her the mirror again. Try to make the light contrast slightly harsher to bring out muscular shape. Accentuate her attractiveness by encouraging wide smiles, silly flexed arm poses, even laughing, whatever to relax her..you can often tell from looking at her eyes. If using a makeup artist, don't go overboard with it, less is more. All in all, have fun...use the advise as pointers...it's not set in stone. Also is my PS fix...about 15 min.<div></div>

[brendan_turner1]

I LOVE the fact that most people are coming up with PS tricks to fix bad light.... makes me

laugh! Come one people, it might be digital, but it doesn't make up for a bad shot. Really.

 

First off, A nice big, close softbox will help... try at 45, or overhead.. either way, keep it a

fair bit higher than the way you shot it. It's way too low!

 

Use some shadow and stop trying to create even light.

 

Next, make her comfy. She's an older woman, she isn't 12. Think warm, cosy, wise.. .etc or

whatever words fit her, and build the setting around that. A more interesting, shaded

background would work as some have suggested.

 

Finally. If you want to shoot Portraits shoot PEOPLE.... NOT plastic photoshoped idealistic

visions of beauty that you saw in magazine.

 

In portraiture, you should work with PEOPLE NOT PHOTOSHOP!

[gerund]

Brendan,

 

I love the fact that most people are coming up with PS tricks to fix the light because at this point in time, that is probably the best way to go about it. However, IMHO, the lighting on this pic is pretty good to start with and there seems to be plenty of shadow in this pic for its intended use if it in fact is going to be used for an

advert poster for a gym , most probably not fine art.

I don't perceive any of these works to be plastic. They are really attempts trying to bring the best features out and I think everyone probably had a lot of fun doing it. I know that I did.

So my final critique is for you, lighten up. Ha, ha. Life is good.

 

Gerry

[brendan_turner1]

Cheers Gerry,

I wasn't really screaming, just using Caps to emphasise where I feel one should put emphasis

in portrait work. Heaven knows I use a TON of photoshop. Sometimes up to 6 or 7 hours on a

single image. And I'm not saying it isn't fun. But I try to get everything in order before I get to

the computer, and really only use it on portraits to retouch zits.

 

But when all is said and done. You really need to forget about the gear and the effects and

focus all of your attention on getting the most out of the model... not your lights.