Which Hasselblad bodies have built-in meters?

[alex_p._schorsch]

Hi, I want to buy a Hassy film camera but would prefer one with a built in

meter. I expect that one of these versions, although discontinued, would break

the bank. I'll probably end up buying a 501 because they're cheaper but would

like to know what my options are. Thanks for the help. Cheers, Alex.

[Ed_Ingold]

Only the 200 series bodies have built-in meters. They also have other features, like an instant-return mirror and built-in self timer (for use with the focal plane shutter. I have an older 205TCC with a spot meter. You can find this model occasionally at KEH.com, for about $1500. The newer version of the 205 and the 203 atart at about $3200.

 

Unless you have an electronic lens (CFE or FE), must meter in the stop-down mode. This is inconvenient but workable, especially with CF or newer lenses. It also limits the low light capability. The meter is useable only with the focal plane shutter.

 

A reasonable alternative is a metered prism, which works on any model. The newest versions, PME-45 and PME90 are the most flexible, having several metering patterns. In any case, you must program the ISO and widest f/stop of the lens, and then transfer the reading to the camera (no automatic coupling). Metering is done in the wide open position, with the results in EV units.

[alex_p._schorsch]

Thanks for the very helpful answer

[kparratt]

Hi Alex. You have several options. For full in-built metering, there are the FE 205, and FE 203 models with electronic focal plane shutters. They are superbly accurate and beautifully engineered. The former has additional "Zone System" controls right through from lens to magazine. It was the first to be discontinued, having been through some development changes. The 203 was probably the best buy in terms of camera for the dollar, but was still too costly to survive. However, both have a range of metering and auto functions. But to build a full outfit of either will require their own specially designed magazines, that is if you want to take full advantage of all functions. The same with lenses.

 

The 503C/M models and ELX (built in motor) and onward have TTL flash metering.

 

Metering on all other bodies can be had with metering prisms, which is a much cheaper way to go. The supply and range of accessories is vast for all 500, both C/M and EL types.

 

So, if you want a Hasselblad that will do the thinking for you, it's going to be very expensive by comparison.

 

I'd love the luxury of a 203 outfit for portrait work, especially when changing mags loaded with various film types and speeds during the same session.

 

Cheers, Kevin.

[kparratt]

I had not seen Edwards detailed answer prior to writing mine, having responded directly to an email alert. We obviously cover some of the same points. The 205TCC was the former name of the 205FE I mention. However, between us, I think it's pretty well covered.

 

Kevin

[q.g._de_bakker]

The 200-series 201 F does not have a meter.<br>The 202 FA does, but it is permanently in auto-exposure mode.<br><br>And then there are the Hasselblad H1, H2 and H3, and the X-Pan I and II... ;-)

[stuart_richardson]

Avoid the 201 and 202, the 203 is probably the best of the bunch for most people (center

weighted versus spot meter), and any of the 205's are a good choice. Bargains are out there

to be had. I bought my 203FE for 1600 dollars on ebay (a buy it now auction from Sweden)

last year, so if you can find one, they are a great value these days. I paid less for my 203FE

and 110mm planar kit than it costs to buy a 503C/X kit new from a dealer...you just need to

get lucky.

[q.g._de_bakker]

Just a bit of trivia:<br>The 'cheapish' (in price. Not in quality) meterless 201 F was built because, to the astonishment of Hasselblad, the then new and very, very expensive spot-metered 205 TCC was very often found sitting on top of studio tripods. Fancy meter and fast top speed? Of no use.<br>The top speed of the 201 F was also lowered because not having to fine adjust and calibrate the faster top speed meant a conciderable costs saving.<br><br>If you can live with the slower pace, a 201 F with a metered prism on top is a very worthwhile alternative to the more expensive models. It takes all lenses ever built, offers TTL-flash control (by the way: first introduced in the 500 ELX, not the later 503 ELX), and of course is of the same quality level as its brothers and sisters.

[db1]

I would go with the 501 or 503 and a metered prism. Much more flexible and much cheaper. This includes the lenses too.

[mervyn_yan]

Using the built-in meter is rather meaningless for larger formats. There are more than one factor to considered. i.e. type of film used, hightlights vs shadow expsoure, etc... If you are seriously into larger formats and photography, which seems you are in this case. I think a hand-held spot/flash meter is worth the investment and portable to other formats.

 

The metered prism in itslef cost as much as a hand-hled meter with less benefits, I never need one, either studio work or landscape.

[db1]

Actually, the PME 45 metered prism is selling for about $1100 "used" on ebay. A good Pentax digital spot meter is about $350.

 

I have a PME 90 and never use it. I'd rather use the spot meter.

[stuart_richardson]

David, how are the 501 and 503 more flexible? The 200 series can use C lenses too, you

don't need to use the shutter in the camera body. You can also use normal A12 backs, it

works without batteries just like a 501 if you use a C lens...the F series lenses are a

frightening bargain at this point. The 50mm f/2.8 FE with a floating element is selling for

around 1500 dollars these days and it is a much better lens than the 50mm f/4. The same

goes for the 250 tele-tessar, which can be had for under 1000 dollars and it is much better

than the 250 f/5.6. So while I understand not wanting the 200 series because it costs more, I

don't buy the argument that it is less flexible. If you take out the battery, it IS the 500 series!

[stuart_richardson]

Another advantage to having the meter built into the body is that you don't have to carry

around a bulky prism or an additional meter with you. You can just use the camera with a

waist level finder and still have metering. Beyond that, by having the meter built in you

don't have to do any gymnastics to make the reading and then transfer the settings to the

camera. It allows you to use the camera in AE mode if you are in a hurry or want to pay

more attention to the shooting than the exposure. And while I understand what Mervyn is

saying, I think he is mistaken. You can be "seriously into larger formats" and still require

speed of operation. Not everyone has the time to do extended zone system calculations

for every expsosure they make. For example, this was a handheld AE exposure with the

110mm planar on slide film. Had I stopped to calculate everything, the moment would

have been gone. I was lucky that I had a metered camera body with me for the shot, and

the 110 planar and the larger format gives it a look that is not readily accessible from

smaller formats: <P><img src="http://www.stuartrichardson.com/rob-love-billy.jpg">

[db1]

Well. 501c bodies are now around $400. 501cm bodies are around $600.

 

As for lenses, why is the 50mm FE better than the 50mm CF or CFi lens? As for cost, the CF is now around $700 and the CF FLE is around $1000. Will my naked eye see a difference between all of these lenses? I highly doubt it.

 

As for carrying a light meter with me, the pentax digital is hardly a bother and my Sekonic L-308s fits in my shirt pocket.

 

(great photo by the way).

[q.g._de_bakker]

I agree with Stuart that 200-series cameras are even more flexible then 500-series cameras. They are a bit less robust though.<br><br>But i can't agree with your evaluation of the relative performace of the 250 mm lenses: i have used them both for a long time now, and have yet to notice a difference in performance at all. The larger opening of the F lens is nice though.

[db1]

With the way the medium format market is playing these days, I would go on the side of caution and buy the 500 series. There are tons of lenses and backs and everything else available for them on the used market. And sometimes they are really cheap.

 

just my two cents.

[stuart_richardson]

David, leaving performance aspects aside (though the 50/2.8 is said to be the better

performer), the 50/2.8 is a stop brighter, which makes focusing easier; it has four floating

elements which are automatically operated, so you don't need to fuss with moving a

secondary focusing ring, and it focuses to .3 meters instead of .5. Additionally, like all the

FE lenses, it has circular aperture blades as opposed to sharp pentagonal ones. This is a

benefit if you have light sources in the out of focus regions, as they will be reproduced as

circular instead of pentagonal, thus looking more natural. But anyway, some people care

about this stuff and some people don't. Any of the 50s on a hasselblad would take a good

photo.

<P>I understand your comments about the medium format market, but I would go the

other way. Just think about how much exotic and formerly INSANELY expensive items there

are out there that are now totally reasonable. A 205TCC was a 7000 dollar camera, and

now you can pick one up for less than 2000 easily. It's like buying a Ferrari and paying for

a Toyota. Sure, the Toyota is vastly more sensible and probably more reliable, but if you

could get a Ferrari for the same price, that might be pretty fun...<P>All that said, I am as

much of a gear head as a photographer, so that influences my judgement. I would not be

singing the praises of the 200 series if I did not think it was better than the 500 series

though. I have used both and I really think the 203FE is the best Hasselblad ever made.

[db1]

there you have it. Not much more for me to say.

[richard_fateman]

Why don't you look at Rollei SLRs? There are bargains to be had here, with 6008i, 6008, 6003, 6006.

 

They have metering, instant-return mirrors...

[db1]

There is a 205FCC at KEH for $3650. This is for the body only. An ebay search, turned up zero for sale in the last thirty days.

 

You could get a a 501cm kit with 80mm CFE lens and A12 back for about $1600. Add to that a 150mm CF in mint condition for $600, a 50mm CF FLE for $1000 and another A12 back for $300 and still have money left over for film or a bag to hold all of this. An entire kit, ready to shoot and travel for $3500.

 

Better or not, sometimes economics rule everything.

[q.g._de_bakker]

I believe the "might break the bank" thingy was presupposed, so let's not dwell on it. The question was about other things: the choice available.<br>Besides, since when is price part of a piece of equipment's qualities???

[fotografz]

Shop. There are dealers out there with stock sitting on the shelf and they're open to offers.

Doesn't hurt to low-ball a price, and if the dealer just wants to get the stuff out of there, they

might bite.

 

I just picked up a brand new 203FE USA warranty that I'd seen sitting on a local shelf for over

a year. $1,500. : -) Not that that kind of luck happens very often, but it never hurts to ask.

[alex_p._schorsch]

Thanks for all the great answers. I had a Mamiya 6 with the full set of lenses. The 50mm lens was to die for and I loved the quality of the slides taken with it. Someone broke into my car and stole the camera and lens. I think that Hassy is more solidly built than the mamiya 6's and 7's so I thought - "They're so cheap now, why not?" I'm thinking of getting a body (either 500 or 200 series) and a 50 or 60mm lens. Still have not decided whether I need a prism finder. Think I'll start out with a waist level to get that Diane Arbus low angle. This is going to be fun. Probably go with the 60mm lens because I want a real "honest" look with no wide angle distortions.

[stuart_richardson]

Just so you know, the Mamiya 50mm and 65mm lens will most certainly give you better

results with less distortion than the hasselblad lenses. It is primarily a function of the

Mamiyas being rangefinders which allows them to have symmetrical or near symmetrical

wide-angles. They will be easier to use handheld and quieter. If you like the Mamiya 6 and 7,

I would stick with them. Though the Mamiyas feel plasticy, they still hold up to a lot of abuse.

I use the 203FE hasselblad, the Rollei 6008 and a Mamiya 7II...the Mamiya has the best wide

angles....

[kparratt]

The Hasselblad Superwide (SWC etc) with the 38mm Biogon is my choice against the Mamiya 6, and certainly doesn't have the "cheap" build feeling. It also permits a quick change of magazine if you use different films on the job. Even just having a battery of mags loaded with the same film for quick change is invaluable at times.

 

But if you want that symetrical lens quality image as well as 6x7 or larger format, the Mamiya 7 it is, as well as the Linhof 6x12, 6x17, and it's competitors in the field.

 

Cheers, Kevin.