Wanting a MF Rangefinder, Bronica RF 645 or Mamiya 6?

[brian steinberger]

I'm looking to purchase a medium format rangefinder. I've narrowed my two

choices to the Bronica RF 645 and the Mamiya 6. I've previously owned the

Mamiya 7 and Bronica SQ-A. I ditched the SQ-A because it was too bulky, and I

ditched the Mamiya 7 because I liked the 6x6 format better. So immediatley I

thought, the Mamiya 6 would be perfect. But I'm reading more and more about the

Bronica RF 645. I understand it's not 6x6, but it sounds very intriquing. I

went back through my Pop Photo magazines and found the reviews from the Mamiya

7ii (basically the same as the Mamiya 6) and the Bronica RF 645 including lens

reviews and the Bronica RF 645's lenses actually tested better than the Mamiya

7's. That's hard to believe because if there was one thing to die for about the

Mamiya 7, it was the optics.

 

Then there's the issue that I keep reading about the Mamiya 6's parts are so

hard to find, and the winding mechanism goes back after a few hundred rolls,

which really scares me because either camera I get, I'm going to get it used.

 

I'm looking for any opinions from users of either camera and especially users of

both! Any suggestions, help and direction is greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks

 

Brian

[dougmiles]

Hi Brian -- I cannot compare the two from personal experience, as I've never held a Mamiya 6. But I do have a pair of Bronica RF645's and have developed considerable respect for the camera. First, it's very compact, about 2cm taller than a Leica M but no larger in other dimensions (with normal lens and hood).

 

Then, the lens options are extremely limited since the scarce 100mm and 135mm lenses are going for 2x-3x original prices. Fortunately the 65 and 45mm lenses are easier to find and outstanding in quality. On the other hand, the viewfinder has no framelines for the 45 (though the whole window can approximate it) and an accessory viewfinder comes with the 45. In practice, absent the longer lenses, the system is a wide and wide-normal one.

 

Some people are put off by the normally vertical orientation of the viewfinder, but I like it. I don't like square, though I recognize some prefer it, and it does obviate rotating the camera for orientation. I like getting 16 shots on a roll instead of 12.

 

The Bronica handles very well and is easy to carry, inconspicuous in use. Shutter is very quiet, and is recocked electrically after each exposure, making an odd little buzz sound that some people misinterpret as a delayed shutter release. Anyway, it's a great system, and probably the most technologically sophisticated MF RF ever.

[paul_wilson2]

I used to own a Mamiya 6MF and now own a 7II. I've never used the Bronica RF but have played around with it at a camera show.

 

First off, from a quality perspective there's little difference between the lenses on the Mamiya 6 and 7. All the ones I've used were excellent (this includes all 3 for the 6 and the 43, 80 and 150 for the 7). I moved to the 7II because I wanted the 43mm and I prefer the 4x5 crop.

 

My impressions of the Bronica were that it's a bit more solid than the Mamiya and the controls are nicer (auto dark slide when removing a lens, etc). Like Doug said, it's quite sophisticated for what it is. If they had made a 6x7 version of it, I would have been seriously tempted to change. However, I'd rather have the bigger film area, greater lens selection and default landscape orientation that the 7II has.

 

Holding any of these cameras vertically (which gives landscape on the Bronica) is a bit of a pain. So take that into consideration.

 

Also, you're concerned with the 6's winder and that's valid. However, Bronica is completely out of business and I don't know how you'd get one serviced. Maybe Tamron still services them but I'm not sure.

 

In short, I don't think you can go too far wrong with any of them. If you want more shots per roll and don't mind the default portrait orientation, get the Bronica. If you want square, get the M6 and search for the newest one you can find. If you want the safest buy, get the 7II.

[nobuya_i1]

You should just buy either system and try it. The prices are stable for these cameras, so you can resell it without much loss if it didn't suit your style.

 

I don't have experience with either the Mamiya 7 or the Bronica, but I've been using a Mamiya 6 for many years. I like square and wanted something light and compact, so the 6 was a natural choice in my case. The resolving power of the 50mm lens is truly outstanding, while my copy of the 75mm lens is average and may compare negatively to the 7's 80mm. The winder on my camera is going strong after years of use, but I'll probably get another body as an insurance.

 

Although I really like the 6, the Bronica appears to be a better camera overall. I hear only good things. You kind of already know the 6; it's not that different from the 7. If I were you, I'd try the Bronica to see if you like the 645 format.

[macfly]

I've owned all of them, Fuji, Bronica, Mamiya 6 & 7. All work well, but overall I'd pic the 7ll

as I really liked the format, brighter finder, choice of lenses and overall feel the best. It is a

really great adventure cam, as it is light and rugged - I used it for a kayaking trip around

the Alaska/BC border area a bunch of years ago and loved the results. http://macfly.com/

voyages/alaska_index.php

 

However I ended up trading it for a Pentax 67ll system, which I honestly prefer. It is

heavier, slower and more fragile, but then so am I these days, so I find it suits me well as

my travel-cam, and I really do pay more attention to image making with a slower heavier

and more deliberate camera. http://macfly.com/voyages/ethiopia_01.php

[raymond_petty1]

They are both great cameras, handle well and have very nice optics. You could not go wrong either way.

I think the major decision you need to make is if you want to shoot 6x6 or 6x4.5.

Two caveats:

If you look hard enough you can probably still get a Bronica system relaively new. That's a plus.

 

If you really want a longer lens, then the Mamiya has a true advantage as it is next to impossible to find the 100 or 135 Bronica lenses at anything other than exhorbitant prices. That's a plus for Mamiya.

[ryan w. radtke]

1 vote for Mamiya 6. Best camera I have ever owned. I put prolly 600 rolls through my 6

and never had a problem with it.. It got dropped, bumped, everything.. the lenses are

amazing, yet somewhat slow. The meter is accurate and fast. Its very compact, really not

hard to carry around when traveling, though I have a leica now and it packs really small

which is a must for me. I also rented 7ii and a fried has a 7. I liked the 6 better than either

of them.

 

Furthermore, I sent it back to mamiya one time during my ownership. They fixed the

baseplate which cracked when I droped it, recalibrated the rangefinder gave it a CLA and

checked out everything else. It was returned within 2 weeks and everything cost about

$200.

 

The bronica.. dont even bother. Ive played around with one and to me it seemed a little

option heavy. Furthermore, it shoots vertical 6x4.5 which is a big pain in the butt. the

lenses are slower and the lens range sucks. Just get the 6... :)

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

Ryan - you have strong opinions about a camera that you've never owned. The Bronica RF645 is an excellent camera (I've owned it and 3 lenses for over 1 year). The lenses are really sharp. The camera is close to silent. Build quality is excellent. And the 645 neg enlarges very nicely. And I often shoot cameras in both portrait and landscape orientation. So, for me, the default orientation doesn't really matter. It just isn't difficult to turn a rangefinder camera 90 degrees to shoot.

 

Not sure what the big fuss is about lens speed with medium format. I hardly ever want anything faster than f/4 because of the shallow DOF.

 

As for close focus - no, you can't do really tight head shots. But you can shoot waist-up portraits easily. And I actually prefer environmental shots to tight head shots. That's another reason that I like my Bronica.

 

On the original question - all of the cameras under consideration are excellent. But I'd be more worried about getting a Mamiya 6 serviced than a Bronica RF645. The Mamiya 6's are getting pretty old and parts are scarce. And the film transport is not purported to be the most robust mechanism (search pnet threads for more info).

[brian steinberger]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I decided to go with the Bronica RF645 after hearing so many good things about it. I found a used one with both the 45, and 65mm lenses. I haven't recieved it yet, but will be certain to leave my first impressions here after a little bit of time with the camera.