Please advise newbie- K100D or K10D?

[mw_rip]

Hi! Thanks in advance to all who take the time to answer. I am a rank

beginner and have not used a slr in several years. I have no brand loyalty

nor lenses and am looking to enter into dslrs. I went to a local shop and

held all the cameras, ruled out Canon immediately. Nikon was fine, but Pentax

just appealed for some reason. Considered Nikon D40 or D50 (anyone see

advantages over the Pentax?), but most of my attention is focused on getting

either the K100 or K10. I want a camera that does not limit me so much that I

have to buy a new body in a years time. I am looking for a body that is user

friendly for now, but that I can grow in to, learn completely, and hopefully

use for 4 or 5 years before upgrading. Please leave money out of the equation

and just advise on which would be a better 'fit' overall. After reading, and

reading, and reading...my questions are:

1) Is there a noticable difference between the SR in the K100 and the K10 and

their effectiveness (have read K10's is better)?

2) I would like to take pictures from my travels and blow them up to poster

size (mostly landscapes, castles, or the occasional animal), or even 20X30,

and wonder if the difference in megapixels is truly important if that is one

of my goals.

3) I've read that the K10 does not create JPEGS right out of the camera that

are as crisp as the K100, and that it has higher noise at ISOs over 800 than

the K100, and vertical banding (that may have been fixed with the 1.1

update). Is this true in your experience, and if so, does the image quality

of the K100 take precedence over the megapixel of the K10?

Any and all suggestions welcome, thanks!

[phule]

If you want large prints then you have to do three things:

 

1) be willing to learn how to use the RAW file format to develop JPG or TIFF files for printing.

 

2) Buy high quality (aka expensive) lenses

 

3) Buy the K10D.

[mw_rip]

Can you recommend a way to learn the RAW file format-ie,a good beginners book like "RAW for Dummies" :-), or an online course, etc? Also, I am not technically or mathmatically oriented, is it exceptionally complicated or pretty accesible to the average person? If large prints were not in the equation, would you still recommend the K10D? Appreciate your help!

[michael s.]

Your desire for very large prints would influence my answer. If you were interested in 8 x10 or 11 x 14 for your "large" prints, I'd say the 6 mpxl K100D would certainly do the job. And I've seen even larger prints, beautiful ones, from other 6 mpxl dslr's by the way. Not sure I wholeheartedly agree with Rob on the need for expensive lenses either. The big thing that determines how a photo looks to me is .... how good the photo is.

 

One very good photographer says that differences between particular lenses can make up the last 5% of a photo's appearance, but the first 95% -- that's on you. :-)

 

For learning photoshop and raw processing, I'd consider one of Scott Kelby's books. Which one will depend upon which version of Photoshop (or Elements) you decide to use.

 

Good luck, and have fun.

[elnoralouisa]

My friend just bought the 100 and I bought the 10. The only difference (except megapixels) that I can see is that the K10D is not going to make someone that is brand new to photography very happy. There is no true auto setting on it. There is a 'green' setting, but without knowledge of F-stops and shutter speeds, you wouldn't like it. Don't know where you are with that. Also, there are no 'scene' modes on the 10, so once again if you don't have experience, and know how to set a camera up, the 100 is for you. This is my second DSLR, and I think the shake reduction is working more than well! I couldn't be happier with it! As far as Nikon, great camera, no doubt about it. The only thing (and for me, money was a factor), if you want VR lens because of shake reduction, then you are spending a lot of money every time you buy a lens, but you said that isn't a problem for you. For me, it was, so now I have it in the camera, and can get the cheaper lens. I am VERY happy with my camera. As far as the noise, I am happy with it at 800. My friend with the 100, did take a picture with the 3200 and the noise was very little.

[michael_kuhne]

I have been advising people lately against buying into the Nikon system. For one thing, neither the D40 or 50 have mirror lockup or depth of field preview, useful advanced features found throughout the Pentax line, and the Canons as well. Nor are those models fully compatible with lenses within their own line. So they do not even make good compact backup models for owners of their better D200 or D2X.

 

One photographer I spoke with a couple of years ago remarked that a camera is not obsolete as long as it produces a good image with efficiency.

 

The K10D is not all that complicated, and with a little familiarization, it is indeed the most efficient picture shooting machine around with its exclusive Pentax Hyper system. It is the only current model with that system.

 

That being said, there are practical considerations. Although I have full-size favorite camera models, I am also into very high-quality compact portable convenience, which is a Pentax specialty. I have found it most desireable to have such a model, with compact high-quality lenses available for times when this characteristic is needed for my activities. At the same time, it should be a model which can serve well as a backup when I will carry both- for myself or 2 users, and compatible with all my lenses.

 

For now, therefore, it may be wise to take advantage of rebates and reduced prices on the K100D. Like all the Pentax line, it has full compatibility, and the full range of advanced professional features you can use to get back into photography and learn. It has a better viewfinder than other brands in its price category or more. It is a compact model, and with a compact lens can even fit into a large pocket or sturdy made belt "fanny" pack!

 

The K10D is a rather large and weighty camera- but well designed for a good feel to the grip. It has a professional, weather-resistant build and an extra-fine viewfinder with more magnification. But it is not compact.

 

It has only been out for about 4 months. In another 6 months or so, its price may drop more. Then you could get it and have both for not a whole lot more than the K10D now. The K100D can then serve as your compact 2nd camera and backup.

 

Look at other recent postings for more details. Like, "what's your opinion" 2/25, "Pentax K10D or Nikon D200" 2/17, and "newbie with Pentax sf10 needs help" 2/24 (on photography) as well as others. And yes, lens choice IS important.

[johnmarsden]

Buy the k100 now. It is exceedingly good.

Get used to digital.

Get these lenses: Pentax SMC 16-45, 50-200. Then collect other stuff as you start to understand what you can do, and want to do.

 

After a year or so - ie when the shot counter has clocked 10,000 then consider what you might change to - if at all. (maybe the K1 will be out by then!)

 

Poster enlargement no problem with 6mp. Just do not crop too much.

 

You will have more fun taking photos with the k100 rather than the challenge of working out how a camera works which will get in your way for quite some time with the k10.

 

The green function on the k10 is for when a non photographer (aka 7 year old son) picks up the machine and wants to take a snap or two. It is not a substitute to help you learn about digital.

 

You have done way too much research, stop reading about cameras. Get one and take loads of pictures.

 

As for learning RAW etc.

Go to your book store and find a simple looking book. Find someone who is already doing RAW and let them teach you. Cruise photonet. etc etc

Really it is about just getting on with it and you pick things up as you go along.

 

The K10, by the way is a dream machine but you have to know what you are doing. I know I would not have been able to drive it properly if it had been my first dslr.

Get the k100

take photos

have fun

and stop reading camera reviews...

[josphy]

I routinely enlarge my shots from my K100D up to 12x18" and they look spectacular. I'd easily go to 20x30" without worrying about it. The price on the K100D has come down significantly since it first came out, plus there is a rebate, so it's a lot of camera for the money!

[jportnoy]

I had a similar issue and decided to purchase the K100d.

As far as I?m concerned the K100d has the same features as the K10.

The only real difference aside from the extra megapix.(which takes up more space on you card) is that on the K10 the controls are at you fingertips for easy access. This makes it easier for the pros to make quick changes. For a beginner this does not do much. The preset setting of the K100d help the beginner take a much better picture. If you own an apple, I-photo will make you pictures look even better with one step easy enhancement. My k100d is being repaired by pentax because the sensor had a manufactures defect (annoying dark spot on photos).

I miss it and am considering buying a spare k100d body. For what you spend on the K10 you can buy two k100d. Buy the K100d know and if money is not a factor you can always get a K10 later. Always good to have a spare.

[michael_kuhne]

Also, to learn photography, make yourself take the camera out of its convenient auto modes and shoot in manual mode. Even focus manually. It will help you re-train your focussing eye to monitor the camera when it is on auto. It will help you learn to guage the effects of reading lighting. Also experience in shooting with a non-zoom lens for learning use of focal length is important.

 

If you would like to enjoy convenience of top-quality optics in a pocketable package, consider the compact "Limited" lens series. No one else makes anything like these. A unique part of the Pentax experience!

[michael_kuhne]

Joseph has effectively put the main differences in a nutshell. As you get into exercising control with your camera, you will gain more understanding of those differences. The control feature design of the K10D makes it the fastest operational DSLR on the planet. I know because I have long had its film predicessor, the PZ-1p.

 

You may wind up eventually getting the K10D, but you will still realize the compact K100D is a joy in its own right!

[mw_rip]

Wow, you guys have been great! Sounds like the consensus is that you can't go wrong for the money with the K100D for a first DSLR. I don't want to get in over my head and end up frustrated because there is so much more to learn before being able to take a decent picture with the K10. Occasional successes do wonders for continued motivation! In addition, you are right that with the way technology advances, by the time I am actually knowledgable enough to fully appreciate and utilize the additional features of the K10 it will probably have somewhat, if not greatly, depreciated in price. I also like the idea of having two bodies eventually, and I can see the convenience in having the smaller one for travel. Thanks again to everyone for your input, its been extremely helpful.

[michael s.]

<< ... by the time I am actually ... the K10 ... will probably have somewhat, if not greatly, depreciated in price ... >>

 

And/or been replaced by a better camera at the same price or, depending upon the market, very possibly a lower price. :-)

 

Good call on the K100D. Enjoy it.

[phule]

<<One very good photographer says that differences between particular lenses can make up the last 5% of a photo's appearance, but the first 95% -- that's on you. :-)>>

 

My assumption here was that, if someone wants to spend the time and energy creating an image to display at 20x30 (as indicated in the original post) every flaw in the system will be magnified many times over. My assumption was that the photographer was already good and the images being produced are good. Obviously the photographer is the most important part of the equation.

 

I do not agree that the K100D's 6MP would be up to the task of a 20x30 print within /reasonable/ viewing distances. But I do put forth that a K100D with a high quality lens (and probably a very good tripod) would beat a K10D with a sub-par lens.

[michael_kuhne]

The kit zoom lens, Pentax 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 is good but not terrific. It is, however, very compact and lightweight for a zoom, and extremely inexpensive for the quality you get. The Pentax 16-45mm f/4 was suggested- an excellent zoom. Perhaps even better, the new Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5, which has been tested as producing excellent image quality, has a good macro (close-up) capability, which is unique for this type of zoom, has an even wider, brighter-viewing aperture, and offers far greater zoom range. Should be a great tool for various scenery, as well as portraits and close-ups. Either of these 2 fine lenses will cost around 4x the actually cheap, but decently-made, kit lens, but are considered very reasonable- not expensive- for what they are. There may be much that is temporarily out of stock, as this equipment has enjoyed brisk sales recently!

 

For ultimate compactness along with ultimate image quality and convenient portability, the Pentax Limited series lenses are worth serious consideration, as additional to the zoom lens. These are unique to Pentax and unparalleled elsewhere. It is also a good thing for gaining experience in photography to often use a high-quality non-zoom lens. It might seem at first to be restrictive compared to a zoom lens, but it is good to work within a focal length, and the user-friendly compact convenience and excellent image quality of these Pentax Limited prime lenses makes picture-taking a real pleasure.

[nldimaging]

Hi all, here we are again Michael selling the 17-70 Sigma, It's easily the best short range/tele I've ever worked with. Low light, Lots of light, macro . . . This lens does it all on a real human's budget.

 

As far as I'm concerned the difference between K100d and K10d is like asking the question What would be a good first car, Lamborghini Countache or Murcielago. Both are fantastic pieces of equipment, One, however, is somewhat more sophisticated. Both will get you from point A to B and very efficiently. Short of the Pocket sized Point and shoots, there isn't much of a margin for beginner equipment anymore. After having a Canon point and shoot (that my daughter now uses) and being disappointed in it's results, I dove on the *ist DL and never looked back. It's equivalent is the K100d With shake reduction, which would have been nice a couple of years ago . . This is the best thing about today's Pentax. I skipped the K100d step and went straight into the K10, I have no regrets although I'm going backwards a bit and purchasing the K100 for backup. Either of these models is great for that step into DSLR. It all boils down to your desire for Lenses, and where you want your initial $ to go. The quality of the pictures you take is mainly in the quality of Glass that you choose.

 

MW, Whichever you choose will be a fantastic piece of equipment. Keep shooting and experimenting and all your photos will improve continually, That's how we learn. Ignore posts by people who may be far more critical of things withought lookin at the bigger picture.

 

Here's a Raw image that I shot with the 17-70 cropped 25% of the original from the K10d, and a Macro flower in Jpg. It's all in the glass and how you run Photoshop for cropping/editing Raw (DNG format). The flower isn't cropped at all although the lens hood was pretty close to hitting it. I didn't see the spiderwebs until it was in the monitor at home here : ).

[nldimaging]

And the Flower . .