love4leica Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Any idea what causes this? Whats the cure? Is this an indication that something else might be wrong with the camera body as well? Many thanks.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikep Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Hs this been re-painted? or under gone a major repair since new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35mmdelux Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 generally base metal not properly prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinay_patel Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 The way it was explained to me on one of my visits to the Leica factory was that there is an acid bath in-between the plating layers and at one point in time there was a problem neutralising and it resulted in subdural gassing. I can't say I've ever seen it on a silver finish though, but it was very prevalent on black M6 bodies in the 1,77x,xxx-1,78x,xxx-range and also the R4, both made around the same time in the mid-to-late 80s. What's the serial # if I may ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icuneko Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 <Any idea what causes this?> Ah ... global warming? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Pray it is not the zink metal corroding. Brass is/was best as always. This is like Rolls Royce putting cheap tires on their cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keirst Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 It's Zinc oxidation under the chrome plate, as others have said. Moisture and oxygen are probably getting under the plating, through small flaws. Another way this could occur is by electrolysis if there is a short circuit to the case from the electronics of the meter or battery. This second possibility would also cause batteries to be consumed quickly. With either cause, the Zinc oxidizes and the corrosion lifts the plating up like bubbles. The top plate would need to be replaced to eliminate the problem, and if batteries don't last long the camera electronics should be checked. Only M6 cameras used the Zinc top plates. Other Leica Ms have brass tops which don't corrode this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cebes_johnson Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Hello What Vinay states above is very interesting and something I did not know. This is most certainly your answer then, however, I feel the need to confuse things a bit. A bad circuit or grounding to the body in time can create (due to a continuous electrical charge running in effect through/to the body) paint to bubble and/or flake off. This happens to other similar cameras in past eras and was an interesting comment while working with a long time camera repair person when the topic came up. Having done electronics of all sorts restoring English cars, it certainly made sense! Again, take it fwiw, but it is something that apparently happened with other non-Leica cameras in the past. I thought it was interesting and worth mentioning. regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love4leica Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Vinay, the serial # is 201XXXX which dates it to 1994. Can you give any more info, please? To buy or not to buy? The price is very very attractive. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 What Vinay and Steven said. All standard production M6 topcovers are molded form zinc alloy and as production proceeded, Leica figured out what worked. Your camera is likely an early Wetzlar model with engraving on the topcover (something like "Ernst Leitz Wetzlar GMBH") with a "Leitz" red dot on the front. Early M6 cameras often have the "blistering" condition you describe. I am sorry to report the only "fix" is a new topcover. However, it took ~20 years to get that way and, if you can live with it, the condition may not get any worse than it is right now. “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Afzal: I was replying before you posted your last message. I have not seen many examples of M6 cameras in a vintage as late as yours with the "blistering" condition, but the zinc alloy still remains. Even so, the condition is not all that common - especially in the later production models (Leica got it right most of the time), so unfortunately, yours is one of the unlucky ones. I would chat with Don Goldberg "DAG" about having it replaced. Regards, Bill “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 BTW, it makes no difference if the camera is black or silver. The issue is in the zinc base metal, not the plating. “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jose_suarez1 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 About 7 Years ago B&H Photo and Video (used Dept.) had a Black M6 w/ one year Leica USA Warranty (Demo), that the salesperson described as a bad paint job - it looked like a Leica with chicken pox. I forgot, the price was approx. $1800 + tax Leica USA did sell this demo, and refurbisher items now and then. Jose Suarez, Spain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35mmdelux Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 What you show are few bubbles. Based on this, I'd buy it on attractive price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumpton Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 As one gets older, superficial flaws on one's face are evident. The interior rests (or should rest) the same. Same for your camera. As a metallurgist in one of my prior lifetimes, I would say they appear to be only superficial and caused by one of the reasons already given. The top plate is thick and any harmful gases will have leaked to the ozone layer and not inside. Look upon the spots as "marques de noblesse" or beauty spots, and profit from the good price (assuming of course that all else is perfect). I can guarantee 100% that they won't appear in your photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred_c1 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Late M4-Ps also had zinc top plates, not just M6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 "Late M4-Ps also had zinc top plates, not just M6." Actually, yes. A fair number of the last M4-P cameras (perhaps 5,200 units) had zinc top covers - they are evidenced by flat M6 style RF windows. Ironically, I have never seen an M4-P (with a zinc top cover) that blistered. BTW, after studying the picture you posted above more carefully, I have decided I would do nothing. The condition on your camera in very minor (I have seen much, much worse). “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torben_daltoft Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Anyone seen this on an M7 (Betriebsk.)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 "Anyone seen this on an M7 (Betriebsk.)?" No. And you won't either - all M7 top covers are made of brass. “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I have an M6 0.58 from about 2000 bought used. When I took delivery it still had the plastic protector on the baseplate. When I peeled off the protector I could see that around the very edge of the baseplate there was some flaking, rather as if one of the coats of black chrome hadn't 'taken'. This had a dusty feel to the touch. I just scraped it away. The loss isn't down to the bare zinc and isn't particularly noticeable either. Just one of those things, I thought -- something hadn't gone quite right in the coating process. The imperfections on your silver chrome are minute -- I wouldn't give it another moment's thought, personally. --alun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love4leica Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 This forum is a bank of knowledge and information. Thank you to everybody for your input. Regards & best wishes. Afzal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 "When I took delivery it still had the plastic protector on the baseplate... The loss isn't down to the bare zinc and isn't particularly noticeable either." The top cover on most M6TTL cameras is zinc alloy, but not the base plate. Leica considered zinc for the base plate when the M6 went into production, but ultimately decided the metal wasn't strong enough on the latch side. If your camera is black chrome, there is a thin layer of a zinc alloy between the black chrome and brass. Every Leica M base plate ever produced has been brass. “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_vu Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 My silver chrome R6.2 with serial number: 248XXXX does has some bubbles on the top-plate. Any taker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william_e._thompson Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 "The top cover on most M6TTL cameras is zinc alloy," I have an old M4-P and a M4-P with M6 windows that was made at the same time the M6 came out. I am pretty sure the latest M4-P has an M6 top plate made of zinc but is the old M4-P brass or zinc? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 I've seen some M6TTL's with this issue on the top plate. As I post there are two for sale on ebay, one of which is much more extensive than what shows on the OP's pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now