operation "ditch the digi - get a fourbyfive"

[.th]

it's time i set my priorities straight, listen to good advice someone once gave

me, and stop fiddling with a format that simply doesn't make me happy. and

windowshop some for a 4x5 and hopefully not in the longest time, make up my mind

and get one. thought i'd ask around here for a little help, input and info, but

please bear in mind that i have twice in my lifetime borrowed a tachihara and

shot a few frames so my lf experience is very limited to say the least.

<br><br>

 

what i want is wide. quite wide in fact, but for starters i'd be happy with, say

80 degrees horizontally (if the fov calculator i use is accurate, a 75mm is

going to give me that). later i will want wider, but then my

preferences/wants/needs may or may not have changed, so let's say that 75mm is a

must, wider even would be a plus, and allow the use of 120 backs and get similar

field of view.

<br><br>

 

i don't plan to take it on hikes, so weight is not my top priority. i will shoot

buildings - inside and out - and out of the car (landscapes/cityscapes/other

sorts of scapes, within walking distance of the trunk). set up preferably

shouldn't take forever, and it should be able to take a little wind.

<br><br>

 

so what i wanted to ask was; what good options are there? (at one point i was

thinking about a dedicated shift camera, but the feeling in my belly tells me

that i will want the movements of a view/field, for dof control). lens

recommendation for a 75/65? good second hand shops, online, since i live far far

away from the photography buisness? or should i just buy the book, and read my

own way to a conclusion..? which book?... ,-)

<br><br>

 

oh, and being my first lf cam, i'd rather not spend multi thousand $$ on it,

judging from what i've read, a popular view seems to be that the first one is

never the "right!"..

<br><br>

 

i'll appreciate tips and advice..

<br><br>

 

best<br>

th

[capocheny]

Thor,

 

I think you need to do some research before you embark on this venture.

 

Do a search for which books are good to read.

 

Decide on how much money you have to spend on a camera and lenses and go from there.

 

All the major manufacturers of both cameras (Sinar, Linhof, Arca Swiss, Horseman, Toyo,

etc) and lenses (Schneider, Rodenstock, Fujinon) are going to have great products.

 

Also, you need to decide on whether you want a monorail or field camera. The Tachihara is

a field camera.

 

Lots of options out there but you need to educate yourself a bit more than you've

indicated!

 

Good luck... LF is definitely a journey and it's a lot of fun as well! :)

 

Cheers

[pico]

If you are certain you want to begin with a wide lens such as the 75mm, then the next

thing to discover is whether you will move to a style that will require great movements. It

will make a difference in your second step.

 

First, step one.

 

Permit me one modest suggestion. Get the Super-Angulon 75mm because it is good and it

is reasonably priced. Then find a Sinar Alpina. You should be able to find the later for

$150. I kid you not. It's a fine camera with all the movements you could possibly use on

the 75mm S/A, but not adaptable to the rest of the (damned spendy) sinar rails. For $150,

who cares?

 

After you get the feel of the wide lens you might make dramatic changes of preferences.

[frank_menesdorfer]

One of you option could be very well a Linhof Kardan Super Color ST with a Schneider 120 or i21 mm super angulon. Those lenses made for 5x7 and give you a lot's of possibilities for camera movements there is no doupt about that. The lens is designed for a 100 degree and the camera gives you all kinds of possibilities for working on landscapes and on architecture. The weight surerely not going to bother you as this camera is made to carry miles and miles! :-)

[troyammons]

You definately want a technical field camera or a rail camera.

 

Super Wide angle lenses are somewhat hard to use. I would recommend starting off with a 135mm or a 150mm and a nikon 90mm to start off or at least rent them. You will always need a normal lens.

 

If you calculate the width a 90mm 4x5 lens is equiv to 23mm. It does not look that wide when viewing though due to the crop.

 

Once you get a handle on that I would probably go for a 58mm SW lens for interiors if it has enough image circle for what you want. You may want to rent one first.

 

What are you going to do for printing.

 

4x5 pro film scanners are non existant and scanning 4x5 on an epson is like dropping a format like to 6x7, in which case you might be better off with a 6x7 technical camera, digitar lenses and a nikon MF film scanner.

[AaronFalkenberg]

You would be hard pressed to use lenses below 75mm comfotably on a wood field camera other than an $$Ebony$$. I use a Zone VI, and 90mm is all it will accept comfortably with movements, but I've seen people use 58mm with no movements. That said, I've found 90mm wide enough for my needs, and the view always seems wider than the comparable focal length in 35mm terms. In landscape orientation, you take in much more forground than a similarily positioned 35mm frame. You can't go wrong with Schneider or Rodenstock. Nikon isn't making or servicing any more view camera lenses. I don't know much about Fujinon lenses, although I hear they are good. I suggest simply getting the cheapest one. All things being equal, you will get fine results with any one of them. Your camera technique (focusing, tilting, stopping down, etc.) will have more impact on image quality than the glass, at least to begin with.

 

For really wide lenses, my first camera choice would be an Arca-Swiss monorail, followed by a Canham, and an Ebony, if you can spare the cash. Also, for almost any lens below 90mm, I find a center filter desireable.

 

As far as retailers, Keh and Ebay are my first contacts. As always, use caution with the latter. I practially stole a Schneider 210mm, got burned on a Nikon 90mm, returned it, and got a Super-Angulon 90mm from an Adorama auction. There are also some very, very good deals on 4x5 sheet and Quickload film on Ebay. www.badgergraphic.com is also a good source.

 

A 4x5 sheet wetmounted on a V750 compares favorably with an Imacon 848 at an optical res of 1200ppi. Yes, the Epson is initally softer, but the images sharpen very well. At 12x15 I couldn't see print sharpness/detail differences. Going beyond 2400ppi pushes the optical tolerances of the Epson, but this is all very relative, and you might have other capture devices in mind.

 

Good luck!

[scott_davis5]

For a very nice, inexpensive package to do what you're looking for, look at a Shen-Hao 4x5 - either the FC or the HZX model. The FC is a non-folding field camera design, intended for use with wide-angle lenses. The HZX is a more general-purpose camera. They take a very inexpensive bag bellows that is very high-quality. Look at the Rodenstock 75mm f6.8 grandagon for a lens- it will cover 6x17 at infinity, even wide open, so you can get movements with it in 4x5 or anything else smaller. That combo would run you around $1000, if you get the camera new and the lens used.

[leicaglow]

One great value is a 65mm f/8 Linhof Schneider Super Angulon. It's dark to focus with unless you have a bright screen, and usually needs to be stopped down or used with a center filter (I usually shoot at min. f/16 and dodge the print if needed). But it's the one lens that I use where people come up and ask me how I get such sharp images. Make sure your camera can handle it though. For architectural work, I recommend buying a WA bag bellows. For field work, my Crown Graphic's bed drops down out of the way, and works fine.

[justinblack]

There are a lot of good basic but very functional monorail cameras (like the more recent

Cambo/Calumet 45SC/NX models) available used for $200-$400 depending on condition

and included accessories. You might need/want a recessed lensboard and a bag bellows

so movements aren't obstructed by compression of the standard bellows with your 75mm

lens. These cameras (with proper accessories) are capable of just about any type of tripod

mounted photography, and represent a very capable, sturdy, and inexpensive way to get

into large format if you wont be carrying the rig too far.

 

Back in college I actually did a lot of landscape work with a Cambo SC. I even did short

hikes, though as soon as I could afford a good field camera I got rid of the heavy monorail.

When I made the switch, I just bought new lens boards for my lenses and sold the Cambo

for what I paid for it ($400 with hard case and a lens board).

 

As for lenses in the 65mm - 75mm range, I recommend the 75mm f/5.6 Super-Angulon

(Schneider) or Grandagon-N (Rodenstock). I own a Fujinon 65mm f/5.6 SWD, which is very,

very good optically, but 65mm lenses have relatively small image circles and find the focal

length too close to the 75mm to be all that compelling (that is, when I KNOW that I like

and use the 75mm focal length a lot). So, I bought a 58mm Schneider XL which I love. I

can't imagine wanting a wider lens for 4x5.

[.th]

thanks everyone for your prompt and thoughtful suggestions. it has given me plenty to think about, and i'll probably come back with more detailed questions when i've digested all this a little...

[ronald_moravec1]

Usually a bag bellows is required for short lenses requireing movements. Bellows, when compressed, will not fles for movement.

 

There are fixed lens WA cameras out there. Cambo wides for one.

[brucecahn]

For lenses below 75 mm there are 3 options from Ebony which are not too expensive. The RW45 with universal bellows will take a 75mm on a flat board, a 65mm on a recessed board. Price $1545. The SW45 will take lenses down to 38mm. It weighs very little, costs $1995. But no back movements except rise. The 45S Takes lenses down to 38mm as well, and has all movements. Cost $2375.

[lars_brorson_fich]

Hi Thorir.

I dont know much about the technical details, but I just whant to say: "Good decision !"

Re. Lars

[msteup]

Hi Thorir,

 

Have you seen this? http://www.largeformatphotography.info/arca-swiss.html

 

During my 4x5 days, I was thinking a lot about what to get instead of the Calumet I had,

and pretty much settled on an Arca Swiss. Looks like a bag bellows would serve you well.

 

Best,

 

Matthias

[paulcalvert]

Hey Thorir. Miss commenting on your images on here. I have a Canham DLC 4X5. More movements than I will ever need, 4lbs lloz, folds very small, somewhat pricey but less than a Ebony, all anodized aluminum, dual extension rail and graflok back. I haven't used it much though because I bought a digital camera for vacation and have to say I am learning so much with digital. I am saving the large format for printing BIG!!!! I have a 90mm Nikkor lense. Very sharp but probably not wide enough based on what you said. It will take down to a 57mm but you would need the optional bag bellows. Keith Canham makes them in Arizona, he is very personable and has a good website.

 

Best of luck

 

Paul

[.th]

again, thanks everyone for your suggestions. i'm sure there'll be a "part II" of this thread, after i've read a little, and decided on what i want and don't want.

<br><br>

 

best...

<br>

th

[laurentbaig]

I started with a 90mm and wasn't happy with it, so I went with a 75mm. My next lens is a 135mm. That combination covers about 80% of my images so far. I have a Shen-hao that I stopped using, I don't like it any more, too floppy. I'm now using an Osaka/Tachihara. Much more rigid. I have had no problems with either of those cameras with the 75mm. Be careful with cameras whose backs don't move forward - the back sliding forward is a really nice feature if you do a lot of wide angle work. 75mm is a little pricey, even used. I got lucky and got a Rodenstock Grandagon-N f4.5 for just over $500. I've been very happy with it, tho some others have more image circle. I only shoot landscape and haven't need a ton...yet.

[billkantor]

Lot's of good advice here so there is not much to add. My only comment is that I find translating the FOV that you use on one format to another is not just about the mathematical equivalence. Certainly you extrapolate from the FOV/focal length you use most on your current format. that's just the starting point. Personally I find that the bigger the format, the wider field I want to use. There are always exceptions and your experience might go the other way.

 

Bottom line. Someone said it earlier. LF is an adventure. Just get started. Given the large format, the lens is not going to be your limiting factor for sharpness unless you are printing VERY BIG. There are plenty of used lenses available out there and if it does not work out, you can usually sell them for very close to what you pay. Have fun!

 

Bill