Wondering what to buy. 30D, 5D. ?

[roy_zoellner]

I bought a 30D, battery grip, 50 1.4, and 2gig sandisk this past summer. I now have on

order a 5D with 17-40. I figure making the investment I could take on jobs where having

a second body is a must (weddings). But the main reason is that I already have a gig to

shoot interiors for a cabinet and countertop business.(thus the FF 5D will be best tool)

Had I had to do it all over again I probably would have still bought the 30D first. A much

less entry price to get in the world of canon. But I am buying my lenses around a FF 5D.

 

Do you have the same problem I do. I am a career firefighter that does webstuff on the

side, and it ends up that all of my side money funds my computer and camera splurges.

Everytime I think, "o' i'm gonna make some good money on this project". I end up placing

an order at b&h for the same amount (of money in) or a little more. it's a vicious

cycle...o'well

[david_halterman]

And Dan...don't use my thread to flirt with Geoff...jeez

[david_halterman]

Dan, by the way, the photo on your site is not up to par with what your comments present.

Was this taken with a point and shoot?

[david_halterman]

Perhaps I am answering my own question over and over, but I have seen amazing work done

with much less than even a 30d. A lot of praise for the 5d is often backed up with what looks

to me like run-of-the-mill textbook photographs. Some of the best portraits I have seen

have been taken with the 20d/30d and a fast 50. I think through all of these words and

opinions people are forgetting the art of it all. Doesn't a keen eye and strong imagination

override megapixels and noise?

[roy_zoellner]

my vote: get the 30D with the best glass you can get now. learn the 30D, and then get a 5D

this summer. I've come to learn (from other posters) that the bodies come and go, but good

glass will last much longer.

[dogbert]

"Doesn't a keen eye and strong imagination override megapixels and noise?"

 

That is very much my view. Great work comes from hardwork - mostly practice and learning. I have a friend that did a 4 year degree in photogpraphy. A large amount of the time was spent leanring lighting and compositional techniques. Vitually no time was spent dicussing the benefits of this lens versus that or this body versus that. In fact the classes dealing with equipment were more about the differences between formats.

 

Unfortunately these equipment forums are seductive as they give the impression that all it takes to be great is having the best gear. It is not that easy.

[dogbert]

Dan you have consitently claimed in repeated posts that "Ls produce better colour" whatever that means. And this based on your rigorous testing. Further, you have claimed sometimes the diffrences are slight, sometimes they are dramatic. I don't know why a lens would produce a dramatic difference one day and a subtle diffrence the next. You have even claimed your tests often show that the majority opinion is wrong.

 

Anyway, seing as though you have done the testing and you think everyone else is wrong why don't you show us your results. Lets see the scientificly tested differences in colour between your 100 /2.8 at f4 and the 70-200 L at 100 mm, lets see the tests where the 85 /1.2 produces better colour than the 85/1.8.

 

I've shown you Reichamn testing the 24-105L versus the 28-135 and the colour is the same. You say that these are only two lenses. Well they are two that I own. I also own the 100 macro and it produces the same colour again. The 50 /1.2 verus 50/1.4 test again showed the same colour. There are even scientific reasons why the colour should be the same - multicoating which allows virtually all light to pass through.

 

Well seeing as though you are sure you are right, show us your tests that prove this.

 

And shame on you for hijacking David's post. merry Christmas, happy holidays and peace and good will to all men, women and creatures that don't bite.

[kiloromeo]

Simple if you're going to get a 5D later, get it now. Just think about how much more adept you will be using the 5D, rather than learning another body first. When you start slapping those other lenses on later, you will have mastered the 5D (to a greater extent anyway). Your photographic eye will be much better as you will be thinking more about the photograph than the equipment. You will have more time spent photoshopping these 5D created images as well. In other words, you will be getting the big E with the 5D. ....experience.

 

Once you get it you will probably make a better lens choice too. I remember being stuck with a 50mm lens for a time, it makes a man out of you, but I digress. You will probably not wait too long to get a different lens, even if you have to go on the ramen diet for a few weeks.

 

Another bonus would be that full frame finder.

 

Whatever, the wrongest thing to do would be to wait for the next greatest thing. Get shooting!

[rtrace]

Dan,

 

Maybe you can reply to this (as it relates to the so-called noise of 30D vs. 5D) thread, as you never got to it. Can you reply?

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00JCPb

 

Bogdan

[images_in_light_north_west]

What ever you do dont skimp on glass, you will be better off with a 30D and good glass than a 5D and cheap glass, a 5D requires better glass

[lovcom_photo]

Bogdan, I replied....but before you go there, I'll give you a hint....you're full of baloney! ;-)

 

For the record, the 5D provides less noise then does ANY other DSLR that any one makes, ESPECIALLY your beloved 1D Mark IIn, of which I once had two of those.

 

Why do you get so upset at me for reporting this? You obviously have a big problem with other points of view.

 

Are you married to your 1D Mark IIn, or in love with it? Why are you taking it so personal that you chose the wrong camera body for weddings and events? You got the great awesome Sports/PJ body...a great camera but it gets trumped all day long by the 5D for weddings.

[ramon_acosta]

When i started photography all i had was an old minolta and two lenses, a 50mm and a

135mm, so my 50mm became my do it all lens. I dont see why you couldnt do the same with

a much better camera. As a side note I think that best glass route is the way to go. I have

just one L glass (70_200 f4) and I just cant wait to get another.

[lovcom_photo]

L lenses very often show different color and contrast then do none-L lenses. You keep saying I am wrong yet you have yet to show us all proof with your own testing. You keep pointing to other websites, you you yourself have no experience with these comparisons.

 

Shame on you for acting like a jealeous person. Get a better job then you too can have better kit. Stop hating me for having a grand kit.

 

Knock off the BS and show is your own proof that I am wrong about L lenses having different color/contrasts then many non-L lenses....stop doing the same thing over and over again....jabbing me won't make your point.

[rtrace]

"Bogdan, I replied....but before you go there, I'll give you a hint....you're full of baloney! ;-)"

 

Yeah you replied - but w/o any proof of anything. So your comments don't hold much value IMO. BTW, why did you get the 30D if you had the 1DMKII? And this is after the 5D is out? Makes no sense, but anyone on the Internet can say anything.

 

I am still looking for some real pictures Dan at >=800 where the 5D trumps the 30D in noise, so much that one needs to get the 5D for the noise improvement. Surely you must have them as you shot with both the 30D and 5D many times as you say. So? Convince us that it matters..

 

"Why do you get so upset at me for reporting this? You obviously have a big problem with other points of view."

 

No, just ones that don't hold any real value and are not backed up. Reply to the above if you can. Don't point to test charts.

 

"Are you married to your 1D Mark IIn, or in love with it?"

 

Nope - as you very well know I sold it since I got something better for my use. So why even ask?! Unlike you, I don't collect gear and 15 lenses. I take pictures. The latter seems a bit lost on you as in this thread where you weren't sure how to use a 50mm on a 1.6x body...

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00JBUu

 

Bogdan

[thierry nguyen cuu - nomad]

David,

 

After reading all the responses, I forgot about the threat :)

 

I think that most of 5D users are Film photographers who don't like to convert the reach of their lens.

 

I've been myself shooting Nikon for a long time, and I turned to Canon the time I found that my D200 body was made in Thailand, my DX lenses were made in China, the lense cap from Taiwan, My SB800 was made in mexico ...

 

The main reason in fact is that I fell in love with the L series lenses, and everything is Made in Japan.

 

What is the main difference between the 30D and the 5D?

 

IMO, the main difference is x1,6.

 

Let's talk numbers (and $)

 

30D sensor x 1,6 = 5D sensor in term of megapixel (Nothing really new though ...)

 

Take the size of the 5D sensor, divide it two times by (1,6) and you'll have the size of the 30D sensor.

 

What's the point here? Well what I'm saying is at same image size the 30D and the 5D have exactly the same resolution i.e details.

They both have Digic II...

 

So the main difference so far between the 5D and the 30D (always talking numbers) is Price of 5D divides by 1,6 IS NOT equal to price of 30D (but more expensive).

 

So for the difference of price, I'll be happy to "leg zoom" to catch up with the 1,6 factor :)

A few steps forward or backward should be enough in most situations (Portrait, landscape ...). In sport photography , the 1,6 factor is a bonus.

 

And yeah, I've printed 20'' x 32 '' with shoots I pulled out from my previous 20D (With a little help of CS2 I regcon)

 

The 5D offers a wider range of ISO though (and a few more invisible focus points).

 

I've been longtime pulling hair off my head before I decided for the 30D, and some lenses.

 

I'm covering from 16mm to 320 mm with my 30D (10-22 EF-S, 14-70 L, 24-70 L, 20-105 L, 50 f1.4, 100 f2.8 Macro, 70-200 IS L) and keep buying lenses :)

 

My Advice would be: Go for the body you feel the most attracted to. When you'll have the body of your dreams, you'll find the cash to fit it with decent lenses... with some sacrifices ...

 

There are a lot of guys (and girls) out there, shooting with the 300 rebell and 350 XT, and have their shoots published in magazines ...

 

Before you wipe your credit card, I'd reccomend to check dpreview.com (both cameras are reviewed here with shot tests). For the lenses the best so far is thegigitalpicture.com

 

And yes, I will go FF on the replacement of the 5D.

 

Merry Xmas

[w_t1]

Welcome to technology and the upgrade bandwagon. Expensive to stay on, I choose to walk instead of ride. I bought an AMD processor for close to $300 in May - in the summer the price got cut in half. Sure I didn't do my research but what can you do. Get one or the other or both, and enjoy using them, ignore what other people say, who cares what they think.

[steve_solomon2]

Greetings, David. I am having a similar dilemma, but I do agree with many of the posters that it takes a creative eye more than a good "DSLR" to make great images! Unfortunately, I have neither, but am working on both. For example, I use a Fuji S9100 that, while not near the quality of a 5D, does have the capacity to help in creating technically good images. You, Dan and others have made some valid points about camera upgrades and lens choices, but I do not think that a camera becomes "obsolete" just because a better, faster model replaces it. Why, for example, has new technology not improved on Ansel Adams' "Moonrise over Hernandez, New Mexico"? I submit that it is because of the vision of the photographer, not the equipment used, albeit a large format view camera. The point is that the original poster may be able to produce high-quality art with the 30D, rather than with a 5D or successor. I talk a good game, but in practice, I tend to wait for upgrades too! :-/

Happy Holidays to my fellow photographers!

~Steve

[m_barbu1]

<p><i>Well what I'm saying is at same image size the 30D and the 5D have exactly the same resolution i.e details.</i></p>That statement is as wrong as your math.

[William Michael]

David:

 

If your head was in a spin before where is it now?

 

Mate, in my opinion you need to get up and take a slow walk around the block and clear your head and start from scratch and keep it simple.

 

Get a long term simple plan, forget what is going to come out next year, you said

 

> I want to immerse myself into the field and let my specialty spring from that. <

 

Well you are not going to immerse yourself if you do not

 

>go with my gut and the 30d a wide zoom, and several mid primes< [your words].

 

 

Now a very smart fellow mentioned on this thread what your limiting factor in the choice should be: it is the ability at the wide end: but my thinking is if you get the 30D and only EF lenses as you develop what you are doing you'll get a FF body within two years and you will have the best of both worlds, a 1.6x and Full Frame to rtake advantage of the full spectrum of the lenses you are purchasing.

 

Regards WW

[lovcom_photo]

I purchased the XTi for long wild life/fowl shots, then upgrade that to a 30D...it was a lot cheaper then a 500mm fast prime. I only use the 30d for that type of shooting.

 

No, I didn't know you sold your 1DM2n...it may come to a shock to you, but I don't keep up with the happenings in your life ;-)

[david_halterman]

In Ansel Adams moonrise over Hernandez, NM, the mountains in the background are my

home. I live in them. I can sometimes look a little Southeast and hear Adams cursing

because he didnt bring his Full Frame with him that day...and about how he maxed out his

512 MB card trying to get that shot. Poor guy. Here in SW Colorado there are endless

things to shoot, and I thank all of you that reminded me of that. Dan...seriously man, I

think you have a real problem. You are that creep on the net that talks and talks but really

doesn't say anything. Thanks for all of the great responses...I am glad so many people

responded to this one. I took a long walk around the block, cleared my head and made

my decision...I have decided to get the Canon______with__________. What do ya think?

Will I fit in here on photo.net? I hope not

[david_halterman]

...and I have no doubt that I will produce better quality and more thought out work than

some posters on here...less is more...with all of this hype about the gear I am seeing more

and more people forgetting what they were doing in the first place....where their gear list is

more extensive than the work they produce. Give me less...and I will make more. With the

$15,000 you spent on lenses with a red stripe, I will span the globe and make my mark.

Living your dream.

[rtrace]

David,

 

I can understand your dilemma. Honestly what I would do is spend the least amount on a body and more on glass, since good glass will be there when you may feel the need to replace the body. Keep it simple too IMO. I myself always have and continue to. I never owned or used more than 3 lenses. I shoot a lot, and don't have time to juggle around 10-15 lenses. I have no problem with people who do this just for a hobby and can afford 10-15 lenses. That is different, because they can plan, take their time, etc. I can afford way more than I have, but I don't need. That is the hard part - admitting what you need and what you don't. Otherwise you'll get lost in Internet talk and test charts, equipment purchasing etc. It's tempting - I know.

 

I can tell you that I shot with a 10D/20D and 3 lenses before attempting to switch to a 1DMKIIN this past summer. I posted a thread about the 5D vs. 1DMKIIN and why I was looking to upgrade. In the end it didn't work out and now I use Nikon. Just tools to me. Anyway, I don't post a portfolio here, but if you want you can search my posts and see samples. All were with the 10D/20D and they were absolutely fine. I just wanted something that felt better ergonomically which would enable me to shoot faster and more comfortably. People who say ergonomics are not important, don't shoot for hours straight or they would understand. But otherwise I had no complaints about the 10D/20D. Some of my best pictures were taken with those cameras.

 

Anyway from what you say, honestly, if you don't want to wait until the next Canon announcement in February, I would say go with the 30D, 50 f/1.4 and 17-40mm. You'll have a 80mm FOV, and a 27-64mm FOV good all around zoom. If you want super-wide, and can spend more, get the 5D with an 85 f/1.8 and 17-40 or 16-35 (more pricey and you say you don't need speed for wide angle).

 

Bogdan

[rtrace]

"No, I didn't know you sold your 1DM2n...it may come to a shock to you, but I don't keep up with the happenings in your life ;-)"

 

Of course you did as you made it a point to keep talking about Nikon noise and how my decision was "wrong". But it would be more beneficial don't you think to answer the question at hand? I'm still waiting to see the pictures.

 

Bogdan

[dogbert]

Dan, seriously you are sadder than I thought. Envious of your kit - ha ha ha. Anyone can buy and L lens or a bunch of them.

 

Get a better job so I can afford a grand kit like you - ROTFLMAO.

 

Do you want to know how much money I made last year. Well put it this way, if I wanted to cut my pay by about 75 per cent I could try a job in IT and shooting weekend weddings. HA HA HA or should it be HO HO HO.

 

Show us the money Dan - you claim you've done the testing so lets see it - face it, you got nothing!