90mm lens questions

[david_smith12]

Hello,

 

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At risk of reigniting WWI I post the following. It's the Canadians vs Germans again!

 

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In my local camera store is a 90mm Tele Elmarit 2.8 lens made in Canada #2695542. It also comes with a Leitz screw in rubber hood. (Kinda cool--probably retail's for a million dollars)

 

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They are selling it on consignment for $550. If I read their book correctly, this lens is from the 1970's. Glass is perfect, cosmetic's are good. Looks like a great user lens. Comes with 39mm filter size.

 

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Now here's my considerations. I know the Canadians saved the free world from tyranny at Ypres. They also saved our US hostages. Plus, they blend a terrific Crown Royal. And finally, my great uncle Cale "went north" in 1916 and joined the Princess Pat division so he could get into the war early. Lucky for him it was as a replacement for the famed division that was shot nearly to extinction.

 

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Yet in reviewing the postings, there are naysayers. Despite the aforementioned atributes of the Canadian's, many advocate the more current Elmarit 90 as a better lens.

 

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Now I'd love to have all my Leica lenses with the same filter size. And the price of the 90 Canadian lens looks reasonable. What's the opinion out there of the current 90 2.8? And What's it's filter size?

Delta International says they peddle the new 90 2.8 for around $950.

 

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And just like 1914, use diplomacy as a last resort.

[budc]

You need have no worry about Canadian lenses. They've made some of

the best Leica lenses around including the 90 SummicronR and the 180

APO Telyt. My Canadian lenses are as well made as Wetzlar lenses of

the same period. Not so long ago I sold a Canadian 35 Summicron that

must have been 40 years old and it was absolutely perfect in every

way.

 

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That Tele-Elmarit lens is apparently the second version of the Tele-

Elmarits and was made in 1974 (the year they changed the lens from 5

elements to 4).

 

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The Leica lens testing guru Erwin Puts ranks the current 90 Elmarit

as the best of the 90 Elmarits followed by the original Elmarit, the

second generation Tele-Elmarit followed by the first generation Tele-

Elmarit.

 

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Is the asking price in U.S. or Canadian dollars? I'd call around to

verify if the price is reasonable.

[kens]

The current Elmarit takes a 46mm filter.

 

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Per se, there's nothing superior or inferior about Canadian lenses

versus German lenses. Criticism about the Tele Elmarit is based only

on its performance with respect to the current lens, not place of

manufacture.

 

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I never warmed up to the Tele Elmarit. One thing that put me off was

the far-forward placement of the aperature ring. I was forever

fumbling around to find it. I prefer the current Elmarit for that and

its superior contrast. However, for compactness the Tele Elmarit

can't be beat.

[simon_wong]

David,

 

As I understand the main difference between the Canadian and German

Tele-Elmarit is the German versions are the most recent and possibly

have newer formulation coatings-less flare prone? Many people have

found flare to be a problem in this lens. Also it's the Canadian

versions that have the dreaded fungus problems common.

 

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Check carefully at the rear element with a penlight or upagainst a

bulblight and look around the periphery for fine haze/lines.

 

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Cheers.

[wilhelm]

I don't think Leica has ever made a bad 90mm lens (not even the

infamous 3 element job). If the lens is in good condition and the

price is right, you can't go wrong.

[david_smith12]

Hello,

 

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The price is in US dollars. I like the compactness and lightweight

feel of the lens on camera.

 

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Since there is no Leica dealer in the area, and only an occasional

second lens in the shop it's difficult to get my hands on new

products for heft, feel, etc. I very much appreciate the comments

and advice.

 

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What's the downside/upside of 4 vs 5 elements? I don't understand

the relationship between number of elements and quality?

[jackflesher]

dAVID:

 

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I cannot speak to the current Elmarit, as I have never owned one, but

I understand from those that do that it is a stellar performer. I

owned a Canadian slim TE, and it was a superb performer. I then

purchased a 90AA which is an outstanding performer, so I sold the TE -

- A decision I have regretted since the minute I did it. The TE was

small and compact, only one stop slower than my 90AA, and about half

the weight. It would have made the perfect companion as a travel 90.

I have since learned that the performance of these lenses was

somewhat variable; some being superb, some being so-so, so if

possible, you might want to test your sample before purchasing it.

[budc]

David,

There isn't any relationship between the number of elements and

quality. The first version of the Tele-Elmarit had five elements.

The second version had four. It's generally accepted that the second

version was an improvement optically over the first.

 

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The current 90 Elmarit is a four element lens with a terrific

reputation. Curiously, the current Elmarit is a variant of the 90mm

lens made for the Leica CL more than 20 years ago. New glass types

permit these kinds of improvements.

[andrew_schank]

If you read some of the archives, you'll see a large number of those

lenses suffered from element seperation, and this can not be repaired

economically. The lens I had went bad on me. Check it out with a

flash light very carefully before you buy it.

[jay_.]

First of all, bring a small penlight/maglight to the store and shine

it through the front and rear elements while looking from the

opposite end. View at about a 45-degree angle to the lens axis and

play the light around a bit. A few specks of dust inside are ok, but

if you see any hazing or mottling in the rear or internal elements,

pass on the lens.

Second, you can get the current version 90/2.8 with perfect glass but

a little outer wear for around US$600 and I'd surely go that route

unless weight/compactness are your main considerations.

Last, the "thin" T-E was made in 3 versions. The first (Canadian)has

a focus ring travel of about 180 degrees. The second (Canadian) has

a focus travel of only 90 degrees and a "90" engraved in orange on

the outside of the mount at the rear. The third version is identical

to the second, except it was made in Germany between the time the

Midland factory was sold, and the lens discontinued in 1989.

Optically all these are the same. I prefer the second version as it

is quicker to focus, yet less expensive than the German version due

only to collector prejudice.

 

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Final note: the rubber hood is "cool", but not as effective as the

reversible metal 12575, tends to tear after plenty of

folding/unfolding, and must be unscrewed each time to change filters.

[andy_piper2]

The key is not 'Where?" but "When?" The current German lens is

modestly better than the Canadian lens, which is modestly better than

the German Tele-Elmarit that preceded it.

 

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I own the Canadian 90 Tele-Elmarit. I have tested it against the

current Elmarit (NO 'Tele').

 

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I can see zero difference in resolution, even with a 2700 dpi scan

(equivalent to a 37" x 57" blowup). Both lenses resolved a 1-pixel-

wide line (about 105 l/mm) wide open near the center of the image.

 

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I CAN see more contrast with the current lens, as well as a VERY

slightly rosier color rendition. The new lens also may be slightly

better in the corners.

 

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The Tele-Elmarit tends to vary somewhat in color rendition because of

its slight flare - it kicks bright colors into other parts of the

picture, so if there's a blue sky or blue wall in or near the frame

the whole picture runs a tad blue; if there's a sunset sky the whole

picture picks up a yellow or orange or red or pink tinge. It can be a

very nice effect, but only if you're expecting it.

 

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My lens has slightly corrosion speckles, fortunately on an inside

front element, so they will be (eventually) repairable. They can only

be seen with a strong backlight through the lens, so definitely

perform the flash-light test!

 

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Jay, I must have found a fourth version, because my TE has the 180°

focusing ring AND a yellow '90' beside the aperture scale.

 

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I got the 12575 shade (which is the same one used for the 135 f/4).

managed to find on new in box for $71 - about what people are asking

used. In a pinch (because of the common filter size) the rectangular

hood for the 35 Summicron pre-ASPH will fit, but doesn't give as much

flare protection (but better than nothing).

 

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The Tele-Elmarit is very pocketable. The current Elmarit isn't bad,

but may lead to Mae West jokes: "Hiya Honey. Is that an Elmarit in

your pocket, or are ya just happy to see me?"

 

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Bottom line: The filter compatability is nice. The image quality

(absent contrast) is not a factor. The TE is more compact and lighter.

But it has a history of ailments, and the new lens is crisper and not

that much more money. At the moment I wouldn't trade my TE for the new

lens, but if I were buying from scratch I might pick the new lens over

the old.

[timothy_nelson]

I've owned all 4 versions of the Elmarit, one at a time. These are

compared in in controlled tests at Erwin Puts' site. My own 90mm

testimonial is as follows, based on my black & white results:

 

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original Elmarit-- beautiful gradation, crisp edge to edge, but lens

always felt too big on a Leica

 

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fat TE--just never got the same crisp photos, seemed so-so to me. Flare

was a problem with mine.

 

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thin TE--wonderfully light, great under most conditions, but mine

flared like crazy if illumination was near the subject, even with the

12575 hood. It did not have the dreaded element hazing.

 

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current Elmarit--heavier but still compact. Stunning--I love to use it

wide open. I use a 90 much more since I got this one, and the weight

seems an advantage for this focal length--it is easier for me to hold

steady.

 

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I think that the larger size and weight of the original and the current

Elmarits helps me take sharper hand-held photos, while the smaller,

lighter ones were more susceptible to camera shake. This wouldn't show

up on tripod comparisons. Of course, I never compared them with same

subject at same time, so it's just my suspicion. I like the greater

mass/inertia of the current 90--it feels good to use. There are lots of

these on the used market now, since the new Summicron 90 appeared. I

rarely use filters, so it doesn't bother me that the Elmarit 90 doesn't

take the same as my 35 & 50.

[c._w._satterfield]

The new Leica Viewfinder, published bt the LHSA, has a featured

article about this excellent lens. I have one of the last prouction

runs, a German made one, and it is tack sharp. No fungus, no

separations, just a quality lens. Find a later production run and buy

it. You can always sell it for the purchase price

[rycklent]

I have a 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit ("thin") of about the same vintage as

the one you're looking at in the store. Paid about that price for it

a year ago on eBay -- it was pristine -- plus a little more for the

12575 hood. I use it on both an M4 and an M3. It's small and light

and, apropos of some other comments, sometimes feels a little too

light. That said, I've made some lovely images with it and would

never quibble about the sharpness or color rendition.

 

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I have also used some older, larger Canon screwmount teles (100/2.0,

85/1.8) on these same cameras and the balance is better for

handholding. Maybe that's why the Leitz 90/2.0 Summis were such heavy

beasts. But hauling the heavier lenses around is tiring.