Need equipment advice - Friends will be getting married, can't afford a pro, want me to "do the best I can".

[aaron meyer]

Amanda,<BR>

<BR>

I've had it for a couple months now and I like it a lot. It fit my hands well and I like the lenses that are available for it even if the total amount of lenses doesn't compare to Canon or Nikon. The covered range is essentially the same and the Minolta/Sony lenses are quite as good as the good Nikon and Canon glass in the nicer lenses. The anti-shake is useful and does help. The camera is noisier than Canon and Nikon at high ISO, but I do not typically shoot above ISO 800, and the noise really only comes into play at 1600. My biggest complaint is shutter lag, which my film cameras did not have.

[john_h.1]

"How many caterers and chefs decided to go to school and/or on to business because of their interest and amateur skill? A great many."

 

How many provided full service packages for weddings for free? Very few.

 

My guess is that Aaron will go on to shoot the wedding and will come up with some nice images. There's time to learn and practice. It is for a freind and it ought to be relaxed setting if there isn't a lot of fretting. There will be duds. enough usable shots and a few gems. The non wedding background may be useful for some non traditional and creative ideas. I don't think there is much to lose but for some time and effort. I say go for it.

[kiva]

I am also thinking Aaron will come up with some nice shots too.

 

Yet, there are a lot of stories of taking on such a task and it ending in broken friendships ... which brings me to this:

 

~It would be interesting if photo.net could use this thread to actually "follow" the posters who have this storyline: "I'm not exactly sure about how to do a wedding but my friend has asked me to 'do my best' so what advice to y'all have for me?"

 

~What I mean is to actually contact them and ask to look over the photos, in a private gallery, if necessary, and see what the real facts show us. Maybe even talk/chat with the bride. Is there evidence to show that taking on a professional job as an unprepared enthusiast leads to disappointment on the part of the bride and groom. Or, does this "enthusiast" fill a niche in the industry and are they a viable force to be recognized?

 

~Reality will tell me that there is not enough manpower on this forum, free time, to properly follow up and do the research but it sure would make an interesting study and article or even a movie! We'd finally have some actual documentation (of sorts) upon which we could base our thoughts/concerns.

 

~I reach the conclusion that warning the enthusiast is our duty. It's not a hollow warning, this is a tough business and learning "how" is not a matter of "knowing" exposure or some basic posing. It's much more. Beyond warning the enthusiast being a positive service to him/her it does follow that it's ultimately a service to the bride who thinks she's saving money. If she actually "wants" photography she needs to hire someone with a track record. If she thinks photography is not necessary then take a risk with the enthusiast.

 

But, we all know that it can be next to impossible to tell the difference between the bride who doesn't want photography and the bride that Really and Actually doesn't care if she has any photos or not.

 

I can say from personal experience that brides, in general, don't grasp the overall impact or importance of the photography until After the Wedding when they are so grateful to get wonderful pictures and re-live their day.

 

I think there's a group in the middle that are willing to risk taking a chance on the enthusiast with a few good lenses and a few photos to back up his/her potential ... this is the danger area for the enthusiast because the vision/hope of this bride, if not satisfied with great photos, can turn ugly.

 

Is it possible that there is actually a small group of brides that will ask the enthusiast to shoot the wedding and be grateful for dark, not well composed photos? Sure, I think this bride exists But I think this bride will look at her photos in 10 years and be very sad they didn't push the photography to the top of the needs list for their wedding. I know this to be a fact, in fact, from personal observation; I know this from the parents of the brides I shoot for now who tell me they wish they'd hired a "real" photographer (like me) for their wedding and those parents then tell the story of asking Uncle Bob (sorry Bob!) to take a few photos for their wedding which never really turned out and are fading quickly into nothingness. (of course I suggest they get married again and I'll shoot their photos, lol).

 

So, the logical conclusion is that the failed enthusiast actually produces a job for a professional wedding photographer in the next generation because the parents are not going to allow their children to make the same mistake that they made by trying to save at the wrong end of the needs list.

 

When we see a bride who understands and seeks a wonderful, experienced photographer and then is so appreciative of the photography (even when expectations are high to start with) the whole process of suggesting a real photographer for a brides wedding all comes together. In fact, I'd argue it's Very Affordable and should be on the top of the needs list!

 

I think this is why we are somewhat insistent and protective of the brides as well as why we issue warnings to the enthusiast. We don't issue warnings out of protecting a turf because this forum is world wide and it's not a factor. It's a good thing to protect a bride's photography but we sure don't know what's in the heart of the bride ... it's important that the enthusiast know exactly the potential outcomes.

 

I'll be cheering for Aaron, not for Your success Aaron, but I'll be cheering for the bride and groom because I want them to have lovely photographs of their lovely wedding day. It's about the bride and groom and their families that are coming together. So, I hope you knock it outta' the park Aaron and give the bride and groom a full set of images that tell the story of the day in a way that will make the families want to pick up the photos and re-live the day and smile. The photography captures a tone, a resonance and then carries that tone and resonance forward.

 

The wedding photography can play an important role. Or, not.

 

 

[DELETE THIS ACCOUNT]

Clearly I'm cheering for Aaron.

 

Judging by the additional information he posted regarding the bride doing her own catering, this sounds like a crew of folks that knows what they are walking in to -- and with that resolved, then this is a no brainer.

 

Some of the professional opinions offered appear to be based on the false understanding that all brides are alike, that all needs are the same, and that a professional is a guarantee that a bride and groom will get the result they are hoping for. I do not believe this to be true.

 

Out of all the shots taken at my wedding, by a professional with substantial experience, only two are on view. I haven't looked at any of the others over the past 11 1/2 years. All this means is that a professional can still miss the mark, even if they take technically well done and composed shots on balance.

 

Since Aaron knows the bride, if he's a good listener and planner (and his participation here seems to underscore that), he'll no doubt get sufficient shots of a nature that the bride and groom want and everyone will be more than pleased. The photographer I bet will be the most critical of the work produced.

 

(PS Aaron, watch that shutter lag - get well used to it during fast-paced activity or ceremonial type events and be sure you are happy with your anticipation and reaction skills. Or drag out the Contax!)

[kiva]

Well said Michael.

 

(I'll keep cheering for the Bride.)

[conraderb]

Aaron - Just FYI, I started shooting for friends. I think that I had the same approach - I started doing a LOT of reading about it 6 months before the wedding, bought some extra equipment and learned how to use it well. the wedding went very well, my friends were delighted and many weddings later, here I am.

 

I think that there are two kinds of non professional photographers who would shoot a wedding: 1) those who don't think anything of it before hand and do nothing special and 2) those who consider it an honor and a privilege and a responsibility to document the day for the couple.

 

Simply by posting, it seems clear to me that you are in the #2 group. If you practice and are able to get good consistent results, I am sure that you will do just fine.

 

feel free to contact me private at conrad AT conraderb DOT com if you have any questions. check my website for my cell # - you are more than welcome to call anytime.

 

conrad

[wulf...]

If you are going to do this try your best to do it right.

 

Learn your camera.

 

Learn lighting.

 

Learn posing.

 

Find shot lists online and go over them with bride and groom.

 

Is it possible they may want an album down the line? Keep that in mind when shooting also. Don't forget the detail shots, rings, cakes. Ever take a picture of a cake? It isn't as easy as it sounds.

 

8x10 doesn't fit your sensor size. Learn how to crop in camera and leave enough to crop for normal size pictures later. That catches a lot of people.

 

Weddings are fast, hectic, emotional, and don't stop for anyone. Be prepared for disasters and have alternate plans. Power outages, rain, etc.

 

Talk them into doing an engagement shoot so you can get comfortable shooting them and they can get comfortable with you pointing a camera at them. This way you can also find their "good" sides to shoot for. People usually have one eye bigger then the other, that normally is their good side. Some like me don't really have a good side!

 

Lot's of memory cards, lots of batteries, backups for everything.

 

Appoint someone to help gather people for formals. Make it their job to get everyone together.

 

Ask people, nicely, not to shoot while you are shooting formals. May not get a single shot with everyone looking at you if everyone else is shooting at the same time. Let them shoot after you take your pics.

 

Chimp the bejeebers out of your histogram to make sure you are hitting the exposures you need and also check the focusing.

 

As others have said, make sure you are on the right ISO for the right lighting.

 

Read, read, read, here, OSP, FM, DPR, wedding sites and blogs, books, video etc. There is tons out there and you have time to do this. Don't procrastinate or you'll regret it. I've only done a couple myself so far but each one gets better and easier.

 

Careful, you may get sucked into this. It's easy to get carried away and want more.

[40mm]

I've been that despicable amateur wedding photographer a few times, for friends and family who simply couldn't, or wouldn't, hire a pro. It's doable, with a bit of practise and research. You're starting in the right place, in this forum.

 

I've found the best approach to the expectations issue is just to be scrupulously honest with your potential client. Show them your pictures, explain your lack of experience, even be a little self-deprecating. Explain what a pro can provide (experience, insurance, better lighting gear, amongst much else) better than you. If they still want you and you think you can and like them enough to do it, then so be it.

 

Very importantly, agree well in advance EXACTLY what you're going to provide. Just the exposed film and leave them to it? Files straight out the camera? Processed images on CD? Prints? How many of what and who's paying? I couldn't take money from friends, so I've always treated the work and whatever ultimate deliverables as a gift.

 

Come the event, behave as professionally as you would in your day job and accept that's why you're there - to do a job. It's hard work and I admire those that can do it for a living.

 

All the above and more means it's worked out for me and I've had a blast learning about a kind of photography I wouldn't otherwise get involved in. My 'clients' (for that's how you have to consider them, however close you might be) have been happy, thank goodness. Most of all, I've learned it's got to be someone I'm very close to and for who I really want to do the best job I can to make it worth the stress.

 

As for the equipment, keep it simple, simple, simple. Use whatever you're already most familiar with. I've always liked two bodies, one with a moderate wide prime and one with a moderate telephoto prime, identical cameras, some flavor of bounce and/or diffuser on the flash (practise!).

 

What you know about using it is far more important than the name on your gear, of course. Know your own style and stick to it. Don't buy anything new immediately before if you can avoid it, unless it's a duplicate for backups. Have a spare for everything and a spare for the spares if you can. Triple the number of memory cards you think you'll need. Spare batteries in every pocket. Don't expect to get time to eat.

[lou_recine]

Hi Aaron

 

I've shot several weddings like this and I can tell you, What will really make a

difference is not what lens you use but things like plenty of rechargeable

battery so your flash will keep recharging quickly, and a large amount of

memory so your not counting shots. I use one lens, my wide-telephoto (17-55)

Your client will never say to you, I think that shot would have been better with

a Sigma 150mm F2.8 macro, The more lenses you have the more confused

you'll get. What you don't want to happen is you missed a shot because you

were changing lens or the batteries on the Flash gave out. Thing happen

much faster at a wedding then you think.

I don't worry about my lens my goal is to take as many photos as I can, and no

one has ever been un happy. People love it when you give them lots to

choose from. That's the one thing most people thank me for.

 

I think your friend is really going to appreciate you doing this for them.

Just have fun with it

 

 

Lou

[aaron meyer]

Had a chance to do an outdoor shoot with the couple recently. Had hoped to come away convinving them that a pro would have a better "hit rate" but ended up having both the future bride and groom love the photos (great for the ol' ego, but it makes the wedding that much more "real" in that I'm a dead cert to do it now so not great for the ol' self-induced stress level). I honestly think I'll be OK though. (And my that I mean, the more I practice the more I believe I can provide the bride with what she wants.)

 

I've revised my lens idea as well. The 16-80 is definitely out. I've been shooting a lot with a Minolta 28-75 f/2.8 and it's been a marvelous lens for me. I have a hard time believing that I'd need anything much longer than that that wouldn't be covered by my Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 (great lens, underrated IMO). After much internal debate on the flash, I picked up a Sony 56AM and a Lightsphere II, I like what the Lightsphere can do to soften a flash and keep the photo from being too harsh.

 

The Sigma 30mm and Zeiss 85mm are still on my list for use in the formals (and the 30mm during the ceremony), just need to marshall the funds for the Zeiss.

 

And the photoset:

 

The first 7 are what I thought came out (other two are random candids that I just took and liked). The bride and groom were less discerning, but since I didn't like the others, they aren't posted. I'd really appreciate any critiques you all may have.