Can anyone offer advice on surveillance camera issue?

[david_degilio]

Hello,

 

I have used this site before for my recreational photography questions. This

time I have something a little different.

 

I recently had a security camera mounted outside my house and hard-wired

through the wall. It was about 10ft up bolted on an archway at the front

entrance. Some thief actually used a ladder to steal the thing.

 

I would like to get a replacement camera that I can mount inside the house to

film through the window to the outside front yard. I found a camera that might

do this.

 

It is an indoor/outdoor day/night weatherproof super low light camera

with .0003 lux 1/3" Sony super HAD CCD. It's the type of camera you can hook up

to the VCR and record. It does not take still shots and has no adjustable

focus, f-stop or anything like that. But the only problem is that I cannot be

certain of its performance. There could be issues with glare, reflection, and

distortion with filming through the thin window pane.

 

I could also just buy another infrared surveillance camera and mount it on the

roof or eaves to discourage thieves. But I would have to set a "trap" or

obstructions to keep thieves from even climbing higher to steal it.

 

Do you think I could get this camera to perform well through the window pane? I

would rather used this arrangement. The vantage point through the front window

is very good and it greatly simplifies wiring issues. The camera would be

pointing south so as not to be directly in line with rising and setting of sun.

It would also have venetian blinds behind it to block out some indoor lighting.

 

 

Thanks,

Dave

[w.smith]

Even if that cam records good images, it is useless if the burglar, once inside, dismantles it

and its recorder. You need a system that streams its images instantly, the second they are

recorded - via the internet - to a distant receiver, where it can be recorded for future

reference. So that, even when the burglar frustrates your camera/recorder setup and

manages to stop the stream, there will still be images of him (her?) at the other location

for law enforcement to act upon.

[frank uhlig]

Are you within your legal rights to monitor the street in front of your house constantly, I wonder?

Are you Mr Orwell 1984 gone private? It sounds like a bad idea ... .

[doug_harhai]

Hi David,

[i don't know all of your facts, so this isn't a legal opinion, but I don't know of any laws (in response to Frank's post) which would prevent you from monitoring the area of your yard which happens to contain a glimpse of public property. If you are aiming this into somebody's bedroom, then of course it is another story. That said, I can see why some people do this--I have elderly parents that live in a rural area and worry about crime, etc., and they have a camera, mounted outside.]

 

To answer your question, I think that you may have camera performance issues with using the camera inside your house. The distortion through the glass will be bad enough to degrade the image somewhat, and when you add the potential for reflections, raindrops and condensation, etc...it makes it hard for the camera to perform well. Maybe you could try hiding it somewhere outside? This would be my advice (actually, my other advice is to consider a home security system if thieves are your concern--it is a bit odd that a real thief would spend the time to steal your camera...maybe just some neighborhood kids playing a prank with you because they know that you value privacy?). Good luck--Doug

[Ed_Ingold]

Someone stole your surveillance camera and you have no pictures of the perp? It sounds like you need more information than which camera to choose. You need to see a security specialist.

 

You can record from this camera to a VCR (a lot of tapes), a time-lapse VCR ($$$) or a computer (or all three). There is software for the computer which will detect motion and record for a specified length of time, so you don't tie up a lot of disk space. You could also record to any number of remote hosts with the computer tie-in. Any of these recording devices can be used to produce stills.

 

Shooting through a window pane will probably degrade quality too much to be useful. Besides, if someone is willing to climb 10' would they hesitate to break a window? Mount it outside, but high enough you would need a ladder, not just an apple box.

 

A person on a public street has no reasonable expectation of privacy, nor in a public portion of your property. However, if there is drug activity outside, you can expect repercussions. I take it you live in an area where self-defense is denied.

[craig_gillette]

Self-defense is an inherent common law right and is not denied anywhere. Some areas have different laws on when reasonable force can be used to protect oneself or another person and under which circumstances you can presume to be threatened, the extent to which you may be obliged to retreat, etc. You are far more likely to do bad time (or die) for screwing up on self defense than you are on taking a picture. Given the quality of photographic legal advice on these forums, you'd be even less well advised to pay much attention to legal musings on self defense. (It is "self" defense, not "stuff" defense.) Unlike someone taking pictures in through your window, there are no issues on your taking pictures out your windows. (Of course, how you use them could be a problem, as ever.) Unless Frank can figure out there is some legal reason you aren't allowed to look from your window, I doubt he's got any real reason to grouse about you taking pictures from them either. The usual whine on these forums is about picture taking be restricted, so to gripe that another photogrpaher should be restricted is particularly offensive.

 

I'd expect trying to deal with a typical window is going to be difficult. I think a sun/weather protected spot under a high eave should be sufficient. If you've got people willing to ladder up to a low camera, then they aren't apt to be to worried about other legal niceties (criminals are like that, which is why they are called criminals). Overlapping coverage would be nice, helps reduce the expediency of simply avoiding single camera coverage while disabling it.

[john_h.1]

"Are you within your legal rights to monitor the street in front of your house constantly, I wonder?"

 

Of course.

[robert lee]

"Do you think I could get this camera to perform well through the window pane?"

 

If you do this, you need to get a camera that either has no IR illuminators or one which can be disabled. When the IR LED's turn on at night, all you'll get is a blinded camera from the window pane. The glass is a pretty good IR mirror.

 

A solution is to use separate IR illuminators around the area of surveillance.

 

"...has no adjustable focus, f-stop or anything like that."

 

Okay, this sounds like the typical cheap surveillance video cam. It's basically pin hole optics. You'll get what you pay for.

 

If you've the time to tinker, try old camcorders: you don't care about the recording aspect, you want the video out and high quality optics. Most are not very IR sensitive, but will have decent low (visible) light capabilities.

[stephen hazelton]

I remember talking to someone a while back- there had been a breakin some place, they had good video of the criminals- but, didn't know who they were, so it didn't do any good. If they find 'em, they can convict 'em, but hard to find 'em with just a face.

 

Anyway, I agree that this sounds like a security issue rather than a camera question.

 

I know they sell fake cameras that you can put up. Perhaps stick one of those where the original camera was, replace as needed, and then replace with a good one when they quit taking them? Maybe move to a safer neighborhood?

[stephen hazelton]

And does anyone beside me think it would be hard to sell a stolen surveillance camera? "Here, I stole this. Put it up and it'll keep stuff from being stolen..."

[david_degilio]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the feedback on my inquiry "Can anyone offer advice on surveillance camera issue?" A few of you questioned the legalities of using a surveillance camera in the neighborhood. It was a actually a policeman who suggested it. I've decided I will point the camera wherever the hell I want. In addition, I am prepared to use deadly force and "obstacles" to prevent additional theft.I have been the victim of theft and vandalism 5 or six times and crime in on the rise in my area.

 

Some examples of crime in my neighborhood:

 

drug raids by heavily armed police

one illegal immigrant drop house raid

vandalism

theft

graffiti

misc neigborhood nuisances

mail theft

harassment

 

If an obnoxious neighbor is causing problems, I will point the camera directly at his 'frickin house. I'm not messing around with these losers.

 

My camera was not a pinhole camera. It was an infrared 12 LED camera. Not the best, but not a piece of junk either.

 

I did not have the camera turned on at the time it was stolen

 

Don't have a lot of money to spend on a fancy system or security consultants, maybe a long duration DVR for recording is the way to go. I have to think about this more, but I am always open to suggestions.

 

Thanks,

Dave

[ken_jeanette1]

Take all the money you would spend on cameras, all the money you can muster and MOVE.