Component Mac monitor vs iMac monitor

[ray .]

Of the current model LCD 20" monitors Apple produces, what are the characteristic differences of

the

monitors themselves? Are there any significant differences, for example, for color

printing? Is one a newer design than the other?

[william john smith]

http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html

[boris c umanso]

If you're not getting an iMac, I'd suggest having a look at Eizo monitors. Even their entry

level monitors seem to have better tonal separation than the Mac equivalents. Mac LCDs

are superficially very appealing (nice design, good to look at) but they're not quite there

yet for serious image editing.

[Uhooru]

Interesting. Perhaps you could explain Boris why so many photo professionals earn their

living on mac and imac monitors. Are they simply just deluded? To answer Ray's

question, the monitors are pretty close with the stand alone slightly better as some say it

has marginally more evan lighting across the whole monitor. J. Heskith at Coast claimss

that they are very close and it would take a professional who really was sophisticated in

color matching and calibration to get any difference out of the two when properly

calibrated. He claimed the difference was slight and practically speaking not significant.

 

Now some people, as I'm sure you've heard, believe some of the imacs like the 24" are too

bright though the color is very accurate and the display software control does not allow

you to bring this into a more usable range. This is mostly an issue some have with the 24"

model. . When I had the 20" G5 imac, my prints came out very very close once it was

calibrated.

 

Hope this helps. If you want the imac, its a good buy, check into a calibration unit for it,

there is one out there that will deal with the brightness issue on the 24. I have the 24, its

calibrated with a Spyder 2 Pro, but havn't printed with it yet.

[ellis_vener_photography]

<I>Interesting. Perhaps you could explain Boris why so many photo professionals earn their

living on mac and imac monitors.</I><P>

Boris is just wrong. I know a lot of high end professionals . Virtually all who are are using

Apple computers are using Apple monitors, as are most digital color experts I know. Those

who are not are hoarding a stash of Sony Artisan, Barco or LaCie Blue Eye III CRT monitors.

[boris c umanso]

" I know a lot of high end professionals"

 

So do I.

 

I never said that working photographers don't use Mac monitors, I said that I thought

there were better alternatives - I'm not alone in this thought. Just as 10 years ago the

majority of photographers used LaCie or Sony CRTs rather than Radius Press Views, the

majority of photographers today use Mac LCDs rather than Eizo ColorEdges. Similarly,

more photographers probably use Nikon scanners than use Imacon - it doesn't follow that

the Nikon must be better, it's about price and pragmatism.

 

In the 90s a Barco or Press View was way more expensive than the same sized LaCie, and

only color specialists and production departments ponied up for them. Perceptions

changed with the introduction of the relatively affordable Sony Artisan. Today a ColorEdge

is maybe triple the price of a CinemaDisplay, but, to put it into perspective, that's around

the price of a (totally mainstream) Canon 5D.

 

I've no idea why a statement as mild as "I'd suggest having a look at Eizo monitors" has

aroused such passion in Barry and Ellis.

[patricklavoie]

they're not quite there yet for serious image editing...

 

In that case i will stop considering myself as a professional photoretoucher! i tough that working with the top best photographer doing all there retouching 50hrs a week make myself a pro. too bad. To be honest, i had a look at Eizo screen, and i dont see why a lot of people rave about them...my image doestn look better on there pro serie that on my Apple 23 inch. + it is almost 2000$ cheaper to go with Apple. It is then not just a questions of design.

[ray .]

Better duck Boris, it would seem people

are quite attached to their Apples!

[ellis_vener_photography]

I'd love a high end Eizo -- but given the extra cost vs. slightly better performance it isn't

worth iot for me. I'd also loveto find an unused Sony Artisan at a good price! But in the

meantime I'm starting to save up for an LED illuminated monitor --which are crazy expensive

right now.

[ellis_vener_photography]

Actually Chromix has some pretty good prices o nthe E24" Eizo color edge right now:

 

http://tinyurl.com/y5mxq2

[boris c umanso]

"people are quite attached to their Apples!"

 

They are, aren't they? It's a bit like people and their Leica M8s. Interestingly, the first years

production of the current model 23" CinemaDisplay had a pronounced magenta cast - if

only the

M8 had a green cast it would've been a marriage made in heaven.

 

If you get the chance, go to a dealer who has calibrated examples of both Apple and Eizo

monitors and open up some image files. I think you'll see a difference.

[jagtar_semplay]

Interesting views regarding different monitors and can see merits in them all although

based upon my experience I would not touch an Apple 23" Cinema Display. I have had 5

LCD panels replaced on the 1st generation and all failed dead pixel test by Apple approved

engineers! All LCD panels were also slightly blotchy in colour variation and unacceptable

uneven in tone and brightness.

Finally Apple replaced it with a new (refurbished) current model of 23" Cinema Display,

slightly better but same issues. Even the service engineers are unhappy as it's

inconvenience for them and 1 less monitor for me to use.

 

I have a Barco Pesonal Calibrator which is miles better in my opinion as is my Sony F520,

both are CRT monitors calibrated with Gretag Macbeth Spectrolino, Profile Maker Pro 5

Monitor software. I have had 2 Eizo L997 21" LCD monitors and were miles better than the

Apple Cinema Display untill a fellow photographer desperately needed them for a job and

would not return them so bought them from me after seeing the difference between them

and my Apple Cinema Display. I think he got the better deal!

 

I do classify myself as a professional photographer and enjoy my photography particularly

as I do use both film and digital side by side. Scanning with a calibrated Imacon Flextight

848 scanner and a Creo IQ Smart 3 flatbed for large art work. Apple customer service

leaves a lot to be desired, Eizo monitor's have a general 5 year warranty for the electronics

I believe and 3 years for the LCD as far as I recall, all at no extra cost, please Apple follow

this example!

 

Jagtar Semplay, London UK

[patricklavoie]

i have 2x 23 inch last generation Apple Cinema Display and i will not change them for nothing. I had the chance to compare a Eizo at my place, put them side by side, and frankly i could not see any major difference that would had justify to put more $$$ on the Eizo. I think that Jagtar have simply been really unlucky, and i am agree with him that the first gen Apple monitor look like s***.

 

If i had to go back in thime and choose again, i would had buy a 30inch intead, but 2x23 inch is realy good on my desk.

[jagtar_semplay]

I forgot to mention that the differences I noticed between the current generation

(aluminium framed) 23"Apple Cinema Display was the subtlety of shades or nuance of

colour and more precise gradation of greyscale in black and white imagery.

 

This might mainly be attributed to the higher end Eizo monitors having their LUT data

stored in a ROM chip helping with a more precise calibration which is hardware based as

well as software interactive. The Apple 23" Cinema Display has no hardware calibration or

OSD but only through software which relies on LUT and adjusting curves within the

graphics card from what I understand. I am expecting a replacement new Apple 23"

Display next week and will report if it fails or passes the acid test after calibration.

[Tim_Lookingbill]

After 9 years with a CRT that still calibrates to sRGB specs using

i1 Display, I decided to get a refurbed 2004 20" G5 iMac from

PowerMax. My first useable LCD and introduction to OS X.

Getting an available 20" S-IPS panel and a fast G5 Mac for less

than $1200 was the deciding factor.

 

This iMac's display as old as it is isn't perfect, but my restored

photos are spot on to my CRT and minilab prints just using the

Apple eyeball calibrator and even using the factory default iMac

profile. Apple finally fixed the chromatic transform algorithms

within their calibrator that before used to make CM previews a bit

oversaturated in OS 9 on my old 2000 Pismo Powerbook

attached to my old CRT.

 

There's evenly distributed subtle banding in the 3/4 tonal regions

of a grayramp. I don't see this banding in my photo restorations.

Mid grays are perfect looking. Native white shows no detectable

color at all unlike my CRT which for years no matter how I adjust

the OSD RGB gains always show some tinge of color which

currently is navy blue and passes for 6500K with the EyeOne.

 

A flat midgray desktop shows subtle nonuniformity only in

luminance extending 3" in from both left and right sides. It's

tolerable. Another anomolie which I suspect will happen to all

ageing LCD's is if I leave a window pane open for extended

period of time, a subtle light burn-in will remain after closing the

window. You really have to look for it, though. It goes away after

putting the computer to sleep for a while.

 

All my images now display correct aspect ratio across the

screen unlike the squashed look in some areas on my CRT. The

gamut plot after calibration of the iMac is very close to sRGB with

only slight extended blues in sRGB.

 

Moving my head laterally all the way to where my eyes line up

with the sides of the display only induces a slight even

luminance shift across the entire screen. Just normal head

movements no more than I would editing on my CRT show no

changes to color or density sitting two feet away.

 

I can now say I like LCD's over CRT's as long as they display

neutrals and color like this iMac.

[jagtar_semplay]

Okay here is the update on my faulty Apple Cinema Display 23" model. After much concerted pressure from myself and the Apple approved service centre, Apple finally gave in to replace my 3rd faulty 23' Cinema display all of which had colour patches of different hue over the entire screen and confirmed by the service engineers as a fault.

 

How apple expected a photographer to use a monitor with these faults and characteristics for professional work is beyond belief. I now have a fairly good even grey background on the new replacement monitor plus it comes as a brand new unit with full 12 month warranty etc so fingers crossed all should be okay now.

 

My main concern is that it has taken me several months of constant reminders and seek the support and backing of service engineers all at my time and expense. It should not have been this way! Apple needs to think seriously at its customer care and relations. Based upon my experiences with poor support and constant failure to accept responsibility by Apple I can not ever confidently recommend Apple monitors any more to my fellow photographers.

 

Jagtar