steve.elliott Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 A quick question. Now I have a Canon f2.8 lens (17-55 IS) this means it's pretty good for low light. But the problem is depth of field. I haven't used it for indoor people shots yet. So if I have a (narrow) rectangular table, and 6 people sit each side - will I have enough depth of field? With low light a compromise is required - otherwise I'd use f8. Has anybody got any examples of low light group shots so I can envisage how it would look at f2.8? Many thanks, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 I'm not sure where you got the idea that a F2.8 is lens is fast? Yes it is fast for a zoom, but for a prime lens it is two full stops slow. Next issue is that focal length & distance effect DOF more than aperture. At the distances & focal length you will need to frame 6 people. You will not get very much DOF at F2.8. It is best to stop down and use flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisher Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Get a tripod, and go f8. Otherwise I guess if there is enough room for six people then that is a quite big room. If so using one flash only would result uneven lighting. Anyway there are DOF calculators (google for it). At 17mm probably you can get promising DOF even with wider apertures. If the picture printed in large you must produce as sharp image as possible. If it going to be published on the web in a 400x300 jpg then the sharpness is not a big problem. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve.elliott Posted November 25, 2006 Author Share Posted November 25, 2006 LOL - I'd hoped to avoid using a flashgun and tripod in a busy resturant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisher Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 I see. Then try monopod. Again, if the final size is small then you can boost up the sensitivity of sensor or push your film by 1-2 stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen_S Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Why are you hunting groups at all? - If I'm indoors with rather fast glass, I focus on the eyes of somebody interesting and use the rest as blurred background. If your camera has DOF preview keep in mind that you'd have to stop down 2 additional stops to get what you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve.elliott Posted November 25, 2006 Author Share Posted November 25, 2006 I guess I'm going to have to use flash and perhaps a slow shutter speed to expose the background. Flash photography is a weakness of mine - I'd rather use ambient lighting if possible. I'm not hunting groups - I'm just thinking of taking a group shot of my team on our Christmas meal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisher Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Get a big flashgun and aim it to the ceiling. I love my Metz 60 CT-4. It has no "smart" metering modes but a simple, reliable mode and enough power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stwrtertbsratbs5 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 See the depth of field calculator: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve.elliott Posted November 25, 2006 Author Share Posted November 25, 2006 Thanks to those that suggested the DOF Calculator - I've learn't a lot from playing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauh44 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Hi Stephen, Here's a shot of the band I play with (although only one night a year. To paraphrase Ian Anderson, we're too old to rock & roll, too young to die) taken last night with a 70-200 f/2.8L IS at f/2.8, ISO 1600, 1Ds Mark II. I don't think it qualifies as a "group" shot in the same way you meant it though! ;-) Also everyone's sort of in the same focal plane in the shot. No tripod, no flash. In general, wide-angle lenses should give you more DOF than long zooms though. You could easily hit your f/8 goal by using a flash I would think, but sometimes you just can't use them for various reasons. If anyone ever suggests taking up the drums, I say get a harmonica instead. Much easier to carry around and I doubt I'd be injecting Ibuprofen in my jugular vein this morning.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve.elliott Posted November 25, 2006 Author Share Posted November 25, 2006 Yes Beau, wide angle seems to improve DOF - but you've cheated there as you're all in a line at the same depth! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauh44 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 "but you've cheated" Yeah, I know! Cheaters never prosper! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicola inglis Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 The problem I have with going f8 is the total lack of ambient in the resulting shot, it looks nasty and the flash fall-off is very obvious. Is it possible to take the shot before they sit at the table? More hassle, less PJ style but the shot will undoubtedly be better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauh44 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 "Is it possible to take the shot before they sit at the table" That may be the way to go. Or put everyone on 1 side like "The Last Supper" ;-) Just another thought but if you could instruct people to remain reasonably still while seated (you'll probably have a long shutter speed) you could then shoot in Av mode on a tripod while bouncing the flash which may give you decent ambient light without a harsh shadow. I know - easier said than done but if you have a low-noise camera like a 5D you can really crank the ISO thus helping the shutter speed issue. Another probably crazy thought - perhaps using hotlights which (usually) have a very similar color temperature to good old lightbulbs, if that's what's used to illuminate the room. I'm pretty sure that at f/2.8 the people at the far end of the table will be rather fuzzy without bringing in some extra light so you can stop your lens down a bit. One last, totally insane thought - due to staying up all night - mount the camera, centered directly above the table, facing down with everyone looking up. Seems you'd need much less DOF. Yeah I know... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanphysics Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 <i>In general, wide-angle lenses should give you more DOF than long zooms though.</i> <p> Actually, if you frame the shot the same way you'll get (almost) exactly the same depth of field whatever the focal length you use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve.elliott Posted November 26, 2006 Author Share Posted November 26, 2006 Beau - that's a mad idea! Taking the shot beforehand is a good idea. But the photograph is not that important so I may just take a few shots on the night and learn from any mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_hovland Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 If this is just a one-shot deal for your team just pose them in a group away from the table. Shooting down the table will be almost impossible, even with f8. F22 might do the job but then they will be blurred from movement. You could try aiming a flash straight down the middle, possibly at a telephoto or medium zoom, and seeing if the penumbra will take care of the closest people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisher Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Er.. with my fisheye the DOF starts from five feets and ends at the infinity even at the widest aperture. So it is possible, but most probably useless to have a fisheye pics of them. <A href="http://foto.c3d.hu/cgi-bin/yaweg?ShIMG:fisherteahaza:img_5665.jpg"> here is a full fisheye</A>, and a <a href="http://foto.c3d.hu/cgi-bin/yaweg?ShIMG:fisherteahaza:leonofsgr.jpg">cut version</a>, and I have played with <a href="http://pano.teahaz.net/01.html">panorama</a> tools too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve.elliott Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 It shouldn't be a tricky job for a good SLR guys! Perhaps you're being too fussy. I've seen a good shot taken last year by a collegue of mine using a prosumer camera on auto settings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisher Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Yepp, the small sensor of those cameras yields bigger DOF, but these sensors love to put lotsa noise in the picture. But it could be a solution to use such a camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve.elliott Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 Ah yes they do have more DOF don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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