further refelections on panasonic dmc L-1

[roger_michel]

i decided to buy the dmc L-1 i had been using at the time i made my earlier

report (i.e. several days ago). i find that i really like a lot. i have used

nikon digitals for many years, most recently a d2hs and a d200. i am also a

very long-time M user.

 

i won't rehash what i said in my recent thread. suffice it to say, i had great

initial impressions of the panasonic version of this camera, which i preferred

to the leica both on the basis of price (i paid $1600 for the panasonic versus

$2500 for the identical leica) and because the black magnesium finish looks

much better and suits my taste for a discreet camera. on the subject of price,

i should say the panasonic is a fantastic bargain in my view. the leica vario-

elmarit 14-50 is the sharpest zoom i have ever used. the VR system also seems

to work much better than the VR in my nikon lenses. the build quality far

surpasses even the ostensibly pro grade nikon lenses like the estimable 12-24

f4. compared to comparable VR lenses from nikon and canon, the lens has a fair

market value of $1200 or so. that leaves only $400 for a metal skeleton, metal

skin camera of extraordinary high quality that is brimming with features

(including many unique features). i don't know how panasonic does it. the

leica price actually seems about right (and you do get a better warranty and 1G

card with the leica).

 

to add to what i said in my earlier thread on the basis of more experience

(about 2000 frames at various event), i offer the following:

 

STRENGTHS:

 

-- really nice build quality. the camera is a pleasure to use. excellent

styling and really fine ergonomics. the traditional analog controls are unique

in this product class, and really appeal to me. i never want to use a

thumbwheel again to set shutter speed or aperture!

 

-- great user interface. i've already talked about this in connection with the

shutter speed/aperture controls. but the rest of the controls are laid out in

a very simple, intuitive way. i especially like the way the most used controls

(exp control, flash, file type, WB, ISO) are so easily accessible. they have

done a great job of prioritizing the convenience of the controls, with the most

used features the easiest to get to.

 

-- very sharp lens. as i said above, the sharpest zoom i have ever used. the

native sharpness is enhanced by the great VR.

 

-- really good B&W modes. it is so important to see how diffeent shades will

render in B&W. it annoys me that so many top DSLRs lack good B&W modes.

 

-- unique dust removal system. the vibration system really works. dslr users

know how annoying dust on the sensor can be. why don't all dslrs have this

truly wonderful feature??

 

-- custom "film" profiles. the camera allows you to set "film" profiles that

you can easily save and call up. it means you can avoid having to use RAW

capture with post-processing all the time. a great convenience feature.

 

-- TTL viewing on the big LCD screen. this is an amazing and unique feature.

it works really well for landscape and architecture, as well as group

portraiture. this feature alone is enough to sell the camera (and other 4/3

cameras that have it).

 

-- best in-camera flash i have ever used. unique two position falsh design

allows auto bounce. i have gotten better flash results with this than i have

ever gotten from the built-in flash in the d200.

 

-- quiet high iso performance. something of a surprise here. the 1600 is

quieter than my d2hs if a shade noisier than the d200. very usable at high ISO.

 

-- very quiet mechanical operation. much quieter than any pentaprism DSLR. a

great stealth DSLR. the side flipping mirror makes this possible.

 

-- lens range. it is great to be able to use lenses from different MFRs with

full functionality. olympus, panasonic and leica have a large number of lenses

planned and there are many great offerings from olympus already. there are

also good offerings from sigma.

 

-- great metering. the spot meter is the tightest in camera spot i have used.

it does a good job. i find the center-weihgted averaging to be incredibly

predictable, which is all i want from a meter.

 

-- good power consumption. i am getting about 400 shots per battery with some

use of flash. ths is very good and the spare batteries are only $30!

 

-- highly customizable. you can program a number of the most prominent

controls to do, essentially, whatever you like. so if you use particular

features a lot, you can make them easliy accessible.

 

-- very sharp, bright LCD screen. just like olympus.

 

-- has an in-camera setting that makes any lens an "on-demand" MF lens,

regardles of whether the lens has that functionality built into it. very nice.

 

WEAKNESSES:

 

-- viewfinder. the TTL view is a little smaller and dimmer than on my nikons.

however, it is easy to focus even in dim light. i don't mind it at all after a

few days. in any event if this is the price for quiet operation, compactness

and TTL view on the LCD, it is a great trade-off.

 

-- auto focus is not as good in very low light as my d2hs. however, the dshs

is thebest camera i have ever used in this regard. the AF is very positive and

does not hunt. it has only three AF zones plus predictive AF.

 

-- uses SD cards instaed of CF (although it will take the multi-gig SD cards).

 

-- no fast primes at the moment other than the excellent sigma 30mm f1.4

(although an 18mm f2 and 25 mm f1.4 are supposedly in the pipeline).

 

-- slightly slower (fps, writing to buffer) than the d2hs, but that is the

fastest camera on the market.

 

all in all, i think this is an amazing camera that undoubtedly will sell poorly

because of its uniqueness, which will be perceived as quirkiness. it also has

little marketing behind it. if it had been introduced with a few fast primes

of similar build quality to the 14-50 VE, it might have stood a better chance.

the big zoom makes the whole package seem cumbersome. with the olympus 35 3.5

it is a very compact camera.

 

people will make up their own mind, but IMO this is a camera that M users

should really like. the quiet operation, B&W modes, simple design, very high

quality build and ergs, and tack sharp lenses make it the first M-like DSLR i

have ever used. it also happend to look very much like an M camera, especially

with a teeny lens on it.

 

check out the panasonic version, and have them slap a compact olympus prime on

it before you make a decision. highly recommended for $1600!

 

 

[samir]

Very nice review. Did you post some pictures at some point? This could be the "M" digital... to bad I cannot put my M lenses on it.

[neilambrose]

<p>I'm glad you're enjoying your camera. Not to take anything away from your own

experience, but I noticed the DMC-L1 was reviewed in British Journal of Photography last

week. That particular reviewer didn't like it - in fact, it got the lowest camera review I've

seen for a while.</p>

 

<p>To paraphrase the article very loosely, the reviewer found the camera looked great,

but didn't deliver. In particular, the performance of the viewfinder, live preview, menu/user

interface and the shutter lag were things he found unacceptable in a semi-pro camera.

That, plus the non-availability of any other manual aperture 4/3 lens, requiring users to

use an awkward software setting on the LCD to set apertures if using other 4/3 lenses.

About the only thing he did like was the performance of the lens.</p>

 

<p>I have no opinion one way or the other (I've never even touched one) but it's

interesting that his experience was quite different from yours. The reviewer concluded by

pointing out that the DMC-L1 was double the price of similar specification cameras from

more established vendors, and but only about half as good.</p>

 

<p>I guess it's going to be one of those love it or hate it things.</p>

[hareshkhanna]

I wonder if the reviewer for the magazine used prime lenses when reviewing the camera. I have always used a Nikon D70 with a 35mm f2 and found it to be a very fast setup. It may make a big difference in the "impression" of the camera.

[roger_michel]

the VF is the weak spot, to be sure. however, it is eminently usable. it just takes some

getting used to. and you get so much in trade: quiet, live view, compactness, and RF

looks.

 

as for criticizing the live view function, to the extent that no other DSLR has it, i think it is

strange to bash it. it is great for landscape and architecture composition. no one

pretends it is to be used for sports/action.

 

i have not noticed any shutter lag as compared to my d2hs, which is certainly the fastest

camera around.

 

finally, he is right about the current absence of other fully manual 4/3 lenses. however,

leica has promised 4 more in the next few months. in the meantime, you set aperture on

the auto lenses in *exactly* the same way as on the d200. the exact same procedure is

used.

 

as for the screen interface, it certainly is different. the camera is much more about manual

controls than screens. in fact, it doesn't have a secondary LCD like every other DSLR. this

was a conscious choice.

 

finally, as to value, i just don't get that one. there is no question that the supplied lens is

every bit the equal (and then some) of the canon/nikon short soom IS/VR lenses. it is

worth at least $1200 using these lenses as a bechmark. getting this all metal body for

$400 is the steel of the century.

 

in the end, i have no doubt that this camera will fail. people will find it very hard to

appreciate it in a world that only looks to specs (reminds me of the THD wars of the 70s in

hi-fi land). i would only say, give it a try if you can. i have used all kinds of gear and

bought it knowing what else is out there. my nikon are just sitting for the moment.

 

BTW, the olympus 7-14mm for this camera is awesome. what an amazing lens. it makes

the perfect complement with the 14-50mm.

[canfred]

I understand this forum is Leica and rangefinder related.

I am happy you are impressed but this is not a rangefinder and not Leica . Perhaps the lens has the Leica name but its not made by them.

[frank]

"In particular, the performance of the viewfinder, live preview, menu/user interface and the shutter lag were things he found unacceptable in a semi-pro camera."

 

I agree with the British author. I've just finished a review for a German magazine (comparison Panasonic L1 vs. Olympus E-330). For me the Panasonic L1 is a mixed bag too: Nice look and feel, standard features, nice quality of the pics - but nothing that can't be beaten by a competitor like Canon or Nikon. (I doubt that many SLR users really miss the option of a preview function.) I was a bit disappointed by the build quality of the lens: not superior to a very good plastic lens mount made by Canon or Sigma. According to lab test and use in practice the Leica zoom is comparable to the cheaper Olympus 14-54/2.8-3.5. The only bonus of the Leica zoom is the OIS.

[roger_michel]

hi frank -- i have to disagree on the build quality of the lens. it has a metal body; the

focus

and zoom rings are very well-damped, the filter ring is metal. it has a feel of quality that

exceeds all of the high end digital lenses from nikon in its DX series by a long chalk. it is

worlds away in buold quality from the olympus 14-54mm. also, IS generally adds a huge

premium to the cost of a lens. it is hardly a negligible feature. to compare it to a cheap

plastic mount lens borders on the absurd. it feels (and looks) like a hasselblad V lens! it

also has the manual aperture ring which is a unique feature in modern electronic lenses.

 

you say also that its features are easily equaled by competitors. well, certainly when it

comes to the features that people usually look at like MP size, file types, speed, af focus

points etc, the camera is middle of the road. however, that ignores the raft of features

that are totally unique to this camera and the sister digilux 3: traditional interface for

aperture and speed; live view, auto dust removal, flat-top RF-like construction. add that

to multiple B&W modes (whicj nikon doesn't have at all); custom film settings; quiet

operation, all-metal construction, simpler interface that is less screen dependent, low

power consumption/cheap batteries and low price and i think you have a very special

camera, indeed.

 

but, asi said, because the places where this camera excels are places where most other

DSLRs don't even compete, most reviewers will be luke warm about this camera. they have

fallen into a template approach to reviewing which exalts the features the MFRs have

decided are important over things that might actually be very handy but are outside of the

traditional field of competition.

 

finally, as to whether this thread is leica related: (a) it has a leica lens, (b) it will be

compatible with all leica D series lenses, © it is identical in all respects to the leica digilux

3 so anything that anyone says about this camera is equally true of the digilux 3.

[roger_michel]

hi -- i just downloaded the firmware update for the L1. it is scary how much new software

can change the operation of a camera!

 

it now can take pictures regardless of how much is in the buffer or whether it is in write

mode. much faster RAW operation. the low light low contrast is also MUCH improved (i

thought it was good before). it is now a real low light focus champ.

 

here is the download. http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/download/L1K/

[frank]

"it has a metal body; the focus and zoom rings are very well-damped, the filter ring is metal. it has a feel of quality that exceeds all of the high end digital lenses from nikon in its DX series by a long chalk. it is worlds away in buold quality from the olympus 14-54mm."

 

Sorry, Roger, that's wishful thinking. The two samples of the Leica-Lumix lens that came with my review L1 have NO metal filter rings or other metal parts. Only the bayonet mount is metal. It's a well made plastic lens like the Olympus 14-54/2.8-3.5. After 13 years of professional reviewing photographic equipment I can give you a simple advice how to check whether it's metal or plastic without scratching the surface: Just put the lens to your lips: If it feels cold, it's metal - if it feels warm, it's plastic. My samples have no cold parts, except the bajonet mount. There is no difference in quality between the two lenses - nor in mechanical neither in optical quality. Believe it or not.

 

 

"it also has the manual aperture ring which is a unique feature in modern electronic lenses."

 

That's interesting for conservative photographers and people who uses old analogue cameras. The aperture ring is a nice to have but not a sensation...

 

Maybe it's a bit easier for me to talk (and write) about the L1 with its Leica lens because I don't have to justify a purchase. I guess the L1 combo is a fine camera but the E-330 with its 14-54/2.8-3.5 is the better deal.

[Allen Herbert]

Perhaps the lens has the Leica name but its not made by them.

 

It's a Leica lens with the Leica name on the lens...how easy is that to understand. Does it have to be made in Germany to be a proper Leica lens?

 

Just where are you coming from? are you a moderator, methinks not. Read the forum rules.<div></div>