A TLR choice

[alex_z]

Hello all.

After efw years of being out of MF for LF, I decided yet again to back me up

with a light, hand-holdable MF setup, thinking TLR.

In some past I had a short-lived experience with a Rolleicord Vb -run a few

rolls through it, in general was quite satisfied but revealed a clear signs of

growing fungus inside the taking lens to it went back to the seller.

Then decided I want MF SLR instead and have a joyfull year with Bronica GS-1

which later was sold to finance my LF passion.

Still shooting 4x5, really enjoy it, but noticed it would be more then nice to

have a handy light MF for walks around, probably some street shooting and other

situations where LF setup isnt' an apropriate (but a professional 35mm SLR rig

is too heavy and intimidating).

Recently bought a used Yachica Mat 124 off Ebay which was addevrtised as

proffesioanlly services and in more then excellent condition. Received one and

guess what ? The condition seems far frmo to be as advertised, most improtant -

the lens shows obvious haze inside (or growing fungus ?) which is deal breaker

for me, so I arrange with the seller for a return with refund.

 

I think I would still want TLR and 6x6 indeed appears to be (family portraiture

should take a large part of TLR work) so I back to searching for a good TLR to

acquire. Now leaning towards Rolleicord/flex though (unless a really good sample

of Yashica Mat 124 will turn out...). I'm more or less familiar with teh options

given in Rolleicord/flex lines, lenses, etc.. though some are still mystery for me.

There are Rolleiflexes with Tessars and Xenars (as the Rolleicords), is Xenar a

direct competitor to a Tessar ? (just like Xenotar against Planar) ?

What is Rolleiflex Automat series ? I noticed several are offered for a

reasonable pricing.

What is Rolleiflex Tessar 3.5 MX ? There is one in excellent condition at KEH

for the price that appears to be reasonable. How these can be dated ? (are these

early models of 50s or probably 60s ?)

 

Thanks, Alex

[bob_the_builder1]

Alex, it is getting increasingly difficult to find a Rolleiflex TLR in good working order on the

second hand market. Be aware that KEH ratings are just costmetic and that anything you buy

will no doubt need a CLA. It is probably best to buy from someone who provides a CLAd

camera with a garuantee. These are now very hard to find in good condition.

[d_purdy]

I see Rolleiflexs on ebay in good condition but you have to know what you are

looking for. And they are pretty expensive. Worth it in my book. I just helped

a friend buy a 2.8F Planar in as new condition for a thousand dollars. with a

nice condition case. The automats are good but they are quite a bit older.

Really there is quite a lot to learn about Rolleis. The Xenar you ask about is

very nearly the same as a Tessar and is every bit as good. The 3.5 Tessar on

the MX.. another automat... is supposedly very good as they all are.. condition

is the key. You don't want a hazy one. The E2, E3 and F models all have the

removable finder so you can put on a prism. The model C is a very nice

version that has a 9 bladed shutter instead of the regular 5 blades of the later

ones.

[pete_andrews10]

Alex, if your budget won't run to a Rolleiflex with Planar lens, then you might as well get a Yashica. The Yashinon lens is a standard Tessar type design, and is capable of excellent results. As with any lens, though, condition is everything.

 

However, I would recommend that you look for an older Yashicamat, rather than the 124G model. Build quality on the older Yashi'mats was better IME, and you won't be paying for a useless meter and the increasingly less useful feature of taking 220 film.

 

I inherited an old 1959 Yashimat from my late uncle, and was very pleasantly surprised by the build and lens quality. I've since had my hands on a 124G, and was much less impressed with it.

 

I've still got the 1959 model, but quickly sold on the 124G. Draw your own conclusions from that.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

Don't overlook the Minolta Autocord - superb lens, nice ergonomics, excellent build quality, and inexpensive.

 

http://dantestella.com/technical/autocord.html

[Andrew in Austin]

I have both the Rolleiflex 2.8C and the Minolta Autocord.

 

The Rolleiflex 2.8C is my preferred TLR for group portraits. The Xenotar has more of a classic LF character than the Rokkor. The Xenotars and Planars offer better performance in low light, as well.

 

The Rolleiflex 3.5 MX - means it has the Synchro-Compur shutter with a selector for M-synch flash bulbs and X-synch for a modern flash. This shutter was used around 1953. It was followed by the infamous EVS system. The EVS shutters coupled the aperture adjustment to the shutter ring to maintain a constant EV.

 

The Autocord is much lighter and a bit slimmer. Hence, a better camera to carry around all day. Also, as Robert mentioned, the camera has better ergonomics, once you get used to its focusing lever. I find it to be faster to focus during shooting. You can focus and shoot with one hand. The Autocord is an excellent street shooter.

 

The Rokkor is a bit higher in contrast than than the older version of the Tessar. It is very sharp at f/8.

 

Two other notes. The Autocord takes standard Bayonet 1 filters and hoods, which are plentiful. Also, the Autocord's film loading is top to bottom, which leads to a better film flatness, if the film has been stored in the camera for a while.

[Andrew in Austin]

<p>I took at a look at Dante's web page. I beg to differ with him on couple of points. For example: those portraits show a bit more contrast than I prefer.</p>

 

<p>It is easy to date a Rolleiflex - see - <a href="http://www.rolleirepairs.com/models.htm">http://www.rolleirepairs.com/models.htm</a>

[aeaster]

Alex, to my knowledge no one has ever written the definitive book on the TLR system. This is an unfortunate gap in the history of photography as the TLRs played a major role for the half-century between 1920 and 1970. Maybe one day a talented historian/photographer will help fill this void, but until that time I will see if I can help you as I am a bone fide TLR fanatic.

 

One of the good things about the world-wide rush to embrace digital technology is that this has freed up tens of thousands of once-cherished old classics from the dark closets and attics where they lurked. Grandpa died, his kids didn't want them and his grandkids couldn't care less about anything older than they are. There is now a plethora of good old TLRs on the market like never before and at what can only be described as ridiculously low prices. But, like in everything else, it is a case of buyer-beware.

 

I can divide the cameras into five categories; from top to bottom.

 

First are the 2.8 and 3.5 Rolleiflexes with the Planar or Xenotar lenses. These are, were, and always will be the absolute top of the line models. Each seem to have their partisans but I cannot offer any personal information because I have never actually owned one. Each time I have found the one that my heart gets set on, it miraculously gets sold the very day before. But what was the camera of choice for Helmut Newton, Imogene Cunningham and many others has got to be good enough for the rest of us I would think.

 

The second tier includes the other Rolleis like the T-Model, the 'Cord and the Automat (MX [1951]or MX EVS[1952 thru 1960 more or less]). Excellent Teutonic engineering, crisp Zeiss or Schneider lenses and built like the proverbial Tiger Panzerkampwagons. I would say that these are as good as what 99 percent of us would ever need in a camera.

 

Third level includes the YashicaMats, the Minolta Autocord, the Tessar lensed Zeiss Ikoflex, and a real sleeper of a camera--the superb Ricoh Diacord. Each brand has its followers and detractors. I'll just say that you can usually find the Diacord at half the price of the others mentioned simply because the brand name isn't as fashionable. They are all equally well-made and rock-solid performers, though the Zeiss has some reputation for lens separation.

 

Next come the great mass of consumer-grade TLRs with the common 3-element lenses. An interesting series was the American-made Ciro-flex models which were later reincarnated by Graflex as their Model 22. I have on, their Model-A, made in 1940 that is still going strong and probably will for the next 100 years. The simpler Alphax-shuttered versions can be found on that auction site for 10 to 25 dollars and represent an excellent rough-and-ready backpack camera. Drop it in the creek? Oh well, you can replace it for an hour's pay.

 

Lastly there are the Seagulls, the Lubitels, and perhaps others that are not really worth much even when brand-new. This is a shame because they have their good qualities. However their poor construction renders them useless in short order. I had a new Seagull that lasted exactly 2-1/2 rolls of film before breaking.

 

I have not mentioned some of the others floating around out there like the various Flexarets, the French SEMs or the ANSCO Automatic because I have never held any of these in my hands and have no real knowledge of their strengths or vices. I have not made mention of the Mamiya TLRs as they are in a class to themselves as studio cameras and I have likewise never had one.

 

There is plenty of information to be gleaned from the 'net about any and all of these cameras. I hope this has been of some help.

[dave_powell2]

Hi Alex,

 

I have (and love) a Rolleiflex Automat (which incorporates automatic film stops). But at the risk of being barraged with verbal stones, let me also suggest an old metal (not plastic) Argoflex F. Yes, it's not in the same class as the Rollei or Yashica. But Google it, and check out the results that others are getting with this very inexpensive sleeper!

 

Sincerely,

 

Dave

[scott_kinkade]

I wouldn't shy away from another Yashica because you got one "not as described." I paid $85 for a 124 that was pretty clean, but had hazy lenses ("not as described.") Using some info I found on the net, I opened them up and cleaned them (I mean, actually took a spanner and took the back element off.) I've been happy as a clam with this camera ever since.<div></div>

[scott_kinkade]

Guess a sharper image might help make my point about the lens...<div></div>

[a._t._burke]

The Rolleicord V has a good coated Tessar type lens capable of well toned sharp positives. The attached slide was taken Summer, 1998 to test a then recent purchase of a used Rolleicord V. The Rolleicord was made the same year as the car. Scan was made in an Epson 4170 (not the best of scanners) at 4800PPI and 48bit, saved as a tiff file of 24 bit. Then follows a cut at full pixels. See the writing on the licence.<div></div>

[a._t._burke]

Here is the cut of the above attached photo<div></div>

[tim_drake]

I have a Rolleicord Vb serviced by Harry in California with a Maxwell screen so it is in top notch shape but I can not say it takes any sharper or better pictures than my Autocord, Diacord, or my 4 element Ciroflex. Being right handed I do not like the left handed feel of the Vb. Actually once I picked up a Mamiya C220f the rest of my TLR collection has seen no use. The Mamiyas are just so much more versatile. You will be surprised at how easy it is to shoot macro without even changing a lens. Once you shoot the 55, 65, or the super 180 you wonder why these are not the most sought after 6x6 cameras on eBay.

[rich815]

<i>"Once you shoot the 55, 65, or the super 180 you wonder why these are not the most sought after 6x6 cameras on eBay."</i><p>

 

Weight?<p>

[sebastien_lallement]

A mamiya C330s with 80/2.8 lens is 1/3 heavier than a 2.8 Rolleiflex. And built-in bellows is included!

 

Apart from the Rolleiflex, there are many more TLRs that never get discussed, like the gorgeous Koniflex with its 5 glass Heliar type lens, or the compact Rex Reflex, the first TLR with interchangeable lens :

http://perso.orange.fr/photoptic/1951rexreflex.jpg

 

Cheers,

 

Sebastien

[larrydressler]

I just got a working Yashica-A for $15. so what if I have to cock the shutter and advance with a knob.... The Yashica Mat with the working meter fills that bill also... but has crank advance. Got a Kiev 6c with wais level finder and a meterprisam finder for $25.00 shipping was a little more but all worked.... and 2 lenses came with it... just shop and good things come your way.. the Rolliflex/cord is next looking to spend about $75.00