Slowest shutter speed for jazz players?

[cristian_desmaras]

Hi. I was wondering if anyone has an idea of the slowest shutter speed

possible(with tripod) to catch musicians in the act of playing, without any blur

effect.

[joanne_lax]

I'd say it depends on how fast or animatedly they are playing. I bet if the late Rahsaan Roland Kirk were doing his circular breathing thing on tenor for a couple minutes you could stretch out as well. If he's blowing the living daylights out of Cherokee or Giant Steps I seriously doubt 1/000th sec could stop the action. There's a very famous jazz phogographer from the '50's whose last name is Leonard and I believe he used strobes mounted up in the club rafters and his work is undoubtedly the timeless standard. You could google him or find reference to his work. I heard somewhere he suffered quite a loss in Hurricane Katrina. UTube has lots of classic jazz videos up and would also be a good source for lighting and camera positioning ideas. Good luck with your project. we don't get much in the way of real hard core jazz 'round these parts. Joanne.

[michaelging]

We used to have to shoot a shot in a jazz club here in phoenix, that only had a single small red spot from across the room, on the player. I used to push tr-x to 1600 and more to get a image to print. When you shoot at the end of their breath you can shoot 1/8 of a second and get a good shot.I did not use a tripod but did brace myself against a wall or table.Its a little like shooting for the peak of action in sports ,but with a person playing a instrument instead.I would shot several shots in a burst, as you never know when they will be as still as possible.

[fotograaf1957]

A 16th "note" ;)

[akira]

Hi, Cristian,

 

You posted the question here in MF forum, which means you are going to shoot jazz players with an MF camera, right?

 

Things could be a little difficult if you shoot the musicians in dim jazz clubs, I used to use Nikon cameras with 50/1.4 and 105/1.8 lenses wide open and the fastest shutter speed I could use was around 1/30 to 1/125@ISO800.

 

The fastest lenses for MF cameras are f2 (Contax645, Hasselblad 2xx series) or f1.9 (Mamiya 645). You say you use tripod, which suggests you are going to shoot relatively far from the stage and you seem to have to use medium tele or longer lenses. They should be at least 1 to 2 stops slower and you have to use ISO1600 or 3200 films just to get the same shutter speeds as I was able to use with the equipments mentioned above.

 

Shutter speeds of 1/30 to 1/125 are not fast enough to stop any motion the players make. The best and only way to stop the motions of the performing musicians on stage under those conditions (and available shutter speeds) is to capture the moment they will make brief stops during the performance.

 

To capture that moment, you'd better know the tunes they are playing, certain rhythmic vocaburary of jazz and the typical behavior of each instrumentalists so that you can predict the moment they make brief stops.

 

The musicians' movements could be milder when they play ballads, but relatively loud shutter sounds of MF cameras will be sure to destroy the mood of the music.

[richard_cochran]

<cite>but relatively loud shutter sounds of MF cameras will be sure to destroy the mood of the music.</cite>

<p>

Not all MF cameras are created equal. The quietest camera I own is a MF TLR. No mirror sound, no aperture stopping down, just a barely audible leaf shutter at the moment of exposure.

[cristian_desmaras]

Well i am using a rollei Vb... It's in a college environment, so they won't care if i get close. Also, the place is very well lighted, not very dim requiring very slow shutterspeeds.

[magumi]

Just like mountains, jazz musicians hardly ever move. Just put the camera on T setting, press the shutter, have a couple of beers, and return when the racket stops. Do not forget to put the earplugs before you enter the club or else you might go deaf and/or mad.

 

Just kidding. :)

 

My general rule of thumb is that 1/15 is the slowest you can get to shoot any living person and still avoid the worst of blurring. For musicians with fast and jerky movements, multiply accordingly. That does not mean, thought, that blurry is necessarily bad. In my experience, if you are lucky, you might have enough light for f 2.8 @ 1/125 and ISO 800, on the other hand in some clubs you might be glad for a measly f 1.4 @ 1/30 and ISO 800. Tripod will not help, fast lens is your best friend.

[akira]

Well, your situation seems to be pretty casual. Are you going to shoot individual players or do you just need to shoot the entire stage?

 

Either way, tripod doesn't seem to be necessary. I've never seen any professional photographers using tripod or monopod when they shoot concerts or live gigs except when they must use 300mm or 400mm lenses.

 

Rolleicord Vb has an f3.5 lens, which should make the use of fast shutter speed difficult even if the stage is well lit. When you shoot stages you shoot mostly in the against-the-light situation, so the management of flare should be important. I'm not sure if Rollei TLRs could get through this kind of situation with their lenses wide open. If the situation is casual enough, you may well be able to ask musicians or stage maanager if you can use flashes.

[Jochen_S]

I don't mind blurring a few drumsticks, which still happens at 1/125sec; otherwise I probably couldn't do without flash. 1/30sec can blur a raised hand of a singer, if he moves it.

 

On a blues singer with a guitar I try down to 1/15th sec if unavoidable. O.K. I'm no pro, but I carry a monopod and use it with my Leicas if necessary (1600 ISO behind f2.0 isn't fast in a dark club).

 

Indoor concert photography is spray & pray. Musicians move way too fast for a 100% hitrate with a wide open lens (if such a thing is imaginable at all) Grab the fastets film available and try your best. I wouldn't mind some motion blurr in the images. As long as you get others sharp it wouldn't harm too much IMHO.

 

Good luck and make sure you're able to focus your TLR in that light. My 55mm lenspair would give me a way too hard time.