SB 23 flash: Deceitful or incompetent sales people ?

[janvanlaethem]

I just went to a camera store and saw two SB-23 flashes in the display window.

Having always wanted one for my film cameras and thinking I might get a good

deal on this, I asked how much they were selling for. The salesperson quoted

me 236.90 Euros each, that is roughly 300 dollars !! As far as I remember, the

SB-23 was introduced in 1988 and was probably discontinued in the late 1990s.

It seems like they digged up the two flashes from a storage room, as the

original boxes are all damaged at the edges. They must desperately want to get

rid of them. No way will they find anyone prepared to pay 300 dollars for 18

year old flash technology.

 

As surprised as I was at the price quoted, I decided to take it a little

further, so I pretended I had just bought a D200 and wanted to know if it was

fully compatible, knowing very well it doesn't even allow 3D matrix flash, let

alone iTTL. The salesperson said 'yes, it is fully compatible with every Nikon

DSLR'.

 

Has anyone ever come accross a case where it was very clear the salesperson

either had no clue what he or she was selling, or just lied his way through

for the sake of making a sale?

 

Another memorable episode was some years ago when I hesitated between a Nikkor

24mm f/2.0 AIS and f/2.8 AIS. So I went into a shop and inquired about the

differences between the two lenses (lens construction, filter sizes, weight

etc., you know how technical we sometimes get). The salesperson started

searching his computer, couldn't find anything and then dissappeared for two

minutes, because he needed to ask someone. Then he came back with THE

ANSWER: "The f/2.0 is one stop faster than the f/2.8" I had a good laugh at

that one and then walked out without buying anything. Incidentally, that shop

was one of Nikon Spain's official dealers. Guess the salesperson had been

selling computers the week before and would sell used cars the week after.

[erik_loza]

What's your point?

[eric friedemann]

---<div></div>

[janvanlaethem]

My point is that I would have bought the flash had it been decently priced, as it was brand new and I could make good use of it with my film cameras.

 

But it was very clear I was dealing with an extremely incompetent salesperson. When I asked if the SB-23 was fully compatible with a D200, I got the easy answer: Yes. As if all Nikon flashes and lenses are compatible with every Nikon body ever made, be it film or digital. I would even have settled for an answer like: I don't know, I'd have to look it up. But for a salesperson to just pretend to know everything about the equipment they are selling, when it is obviously not so, and to treat a customer like they'll accept just anything is just not acceptable. They also had the SB600 and SB800 on display, but I was never informed about those.

 

Guess I'm just missing the local camera shops, where salespeople would take time to inform customers about camera equipment and were above all people who loved photography.

[dan_long]

Jan:

While I guess I get your point, there are a few things to consider. First, with respect to your contact with this particular sales person, did a language barrier of any type enter into your communications? (i.e. price in EURO's)

 

Second, if so, the response to your question, assuming you asked exactly as stated, may have been "technically" correct. My point is, if someone asked me whether an SB-23 would work with a D200, I would probably say no, all things considered. But if someone asked me whether all of the functions on an SB-23 would work on a D200, the answer is likely yes, as there is nothing on an SB-23 that will not work on a D200. Get my drift?

 

I only offer this because if there was a language barrier of any type, the context of the question may not translate well. And of course, it may be as you state, where the salesman is either inept of being less than straightforward.

[User_276104]

As I read the first two sentences of your post I began to assume that you were in a shop on Flagler Street in Miami, FL!

 

It's been about a year since I've been to Miami, but I would often walk by an electronics store on Flagler that had an F5 in the window with a 75-300 AF mounted on it. I don't think it ever got much direct sun on it, but I was always tempted to ask what the price was. Then I had imagined this exchange in which I would put some batteries in the body and if everything worked OK I'd make a ridiculous offer for the package, telling them that I knew it had been in the window for over 2 years and both items were no longer made.

 

A little off topic, but just a story about old items in shop windows.

[charles_miller]

Jan,

 

May I correctly assume that you are not a Spanish national? Perhaps you were visiting Spain on business or on holiday, when you decided to pick up another flash. If that was the situation, then the salesperson was REALLY COMPETENT! That is to say that he spotted a tourist who doesn't know the local channels for lodging complaints, and who will soon be out of the country anyway. That situation also happens in the USA and other countries.

 

Jan, suffice it to say, many and perhaps most camera stores are built on unholy ground. Now you know.

[richard_cochran]

Bad sales people exist worldwide, and tourist zones seem to be most infested.

<p>

A few weeks ago, I was in San Francisco's Fisherman's Wharf area, carrying my Nikon FM2n with 35mm f/2.0 AIS lens. There are lots of camera stores all over the place there, and they prey on tourists. At every one of them, someone was in front of the store came up to me and tried to sell me a new lens, while I was just walking past the store on the sidewalk. One guy tried to sell me a G-type lens, which offers no way of controlling aperture on the FM series of cameras.

<p>

The most memorable line was when one guy said "did you know they have a new digital High Definition lens available for that camera? It's very sharp and clear." I didn't stick around long enough to figure out exactly which lens he was talking about, other than to see that he was pointing toward a stack of plastic 3rd party autofocus superzooms. I'll admit they might have <em>some</em> advantages in certain limited circumstances over a 35mm f/2 AIS, but "high definition" is not among them.

[janvanlaethem]

Thank you for the answers posted so far and your views expressed in them.

 

Dan, you are right into thinking that I am not Spanish, but I have lived and worked in Spain for over 12 years and think I have a good understanding of the language. I also do a lot of reading about photography in Spanish and other languages, so I'm certainly familiar with all the technical jargon. But you may be right about the compatibility issue, it does work both ways. I'm sure the SB-23 would fire when used on a D200, only I don't think it will allow you to use all the advanced flash possibilities offered on the D200 (3D matrix metering and iTTL). Just like a modern AF-S (non-G) lens will fit on an F3 and will let you take pictures, but it would be pointless paying the extra money for an AF-S lens if you're not going to use that feature. I'm absolutely sure about the price though, I saw it on the boxes and I also got them to write it down for me.

 

Eric Sande, I might take your advice and try to make a very low offer on it, but I doubt they will come down much from their asking price. KEH is selling them for 49 dollars in excellent plus condition.

 

Charles, you may be right about the tourist thing. It is possible that the salesperson picked up my accent and assumed I was a tourist who would leave the country within the next few days. The shop is located at a busy touristic location, close to the seafront.

 

Anyway, I still think the SB-23 is way overpriced for an 18 year old design. Eventually they will sell it to some ignorant shopper.

[eric friedemann]

I got a perfect SB-23 used for $20 a few years back and got rid of it within a month. The SB-23 is a mediocre flash at any price:

 

 

1. It uses four AA batteries making it heavy for its size.

 

 

2. The SB-23 only covers a 35mm lens pattern in 35mm format and has no wide angle adapter.

 

 

3. It has a totally lame guide number of 20 @ ISO 100.

 

 

4. The flash head sits so low down that its easy to generate red-eye.

 

 

If you want a compact, lightweight flash with decent power, that will provide TTL with many Nikon FILM cameras, I'd get the now-discontinued SB-30:

 

 

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/NikonF5/Flash/SB30/index.htm

 

 

If you want a compact, lightweight flash with decent power, that will provide i-TTL with Nikon digital cameras, I'd get the Metz 28AF-3N:

 

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=352526&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

 

 

Note: I could not find information on specific compatibility of the 28AF-3N with the D200, but you could contact Metz directly to ask about compatibility:

 

 

http://www.metz.de/en/photo_electronics/mecablitz_28_AF-3_digital.226.html

[eric friedemann]

"I'm sure the SB-23 would fire when used on a D200, only I don't think it will allow you to use all the advanced flash possibilities offered on the D200 (3D matrix metering and iTTL). Just like a modern AF-S (non-G) lens will fit on an F3 and will let you take pictures, but it would be pointless paying the extra money for an AF-S lens if you're not going to use that feature."

 

 

No. Understand that the SB-23 has three settings: Off, Manual and TTL. The SB-23 will not provide TTL exposure on a D200, which would leave you with Off and Manual:

 

 

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf4/flash/SB23/index.htm