What chemicals to use for c-41. Just picked up a jobo atl2

[wing_gee]

I just picked up the jobo atl2 that was on ebay. This is my first

experience with color processing. I was wondering what chemicals i

need to do c-41. I know the shelf life is very short on the

chemicals. I heard of powders being used for developers. What can

and can't be re-used? I've always processed my own BW but now i can

automate it and have more predictable results. Where do i get

started? :)

 

Thanks!

Wing

[discpad]

Hi Wing! Congrats on your new purchase -- You'll love it!

 

 

Did a manual come with it? Although shoddily written, it's enough to get you started, especially in Chapter Five.

 

Also, go to my Home Page and download the Processing manuals that I recompiled into single PDF "binders"

http://users.snip.net/~joe/default.htm

 

 

Before you start to run film through it, run a cleaning cycle with very hot tapwater in the bottles to clean the gunk/sludge/other crap out of the bottles.

 

 

Then, refill all of the chemistry bottles to the top and run a complete 6 step process at 1500 ml, setting the chemistry step times to no less than 45 seconds (to allow for drainage times when dumping). "Catch and release" the water from each of the chemistry steps into either a 2 liter/half gallon measuring pitcher or into a 2L Jobo measuring bottle, taking note if any of them come up short (air leak on an individulal air hoses between the distributor and bottle, or the distributor itself); or if all six are short, which is an air leak from the distributor back to the pump, or short time. Normal range is +/- 10%, but I prefer if it's no less than 5% under for single-shot use.

 

 

I'll post more later today; but this is enough to get you off and rolling.

 

Also, if you see any posts from Ron Mowrey, pay attention: I did, and I've been reaping the benefits ever since! :)

[wing_gee]

Thanks alot for the information. I should receive the unit on friday and i'll run through the cleaning process.

I'll go over that pdf. In the auction it says it comes with the manuals.

 

Thanks!

Wing

[discpad]

OK, I looked up your domain name, and I see you're in Seattle. What you need to do is find a distributor for Kodak -- Should be at least one in every city. Then, what you want is/are the Professional chemicals.

 

 

If you have to have them shipped in, you'll get eaten alive, as UPS charges $20 and FedEx Ground charges $30 for each HazMat box... Because they can, and have you by the balls.

 

 

To keep your distributor honest, check his prices against B&H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com and chemistry at:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=search&Q=&ci=582

 

 

What I do is look at the quantity breaks on prices: At a certain point, the cost drops radically. For example, Bleach III replenisher is $27 for one gallon but only $88 for five gallons:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=27567&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

 

 

...And five gallons of regenerator here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=27568&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

 

 

 

The fixer, which you can use for any film, is best in the 25 gallon size (2.5 gallons of concentrate) for $32.95:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=27599&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

 

 

Flexicolor five gallon developer boxes are $26.50:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=27583&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

 

 

This should be enough to get you started; though you'll need stabilizer/final rinse, which MUST be done offline, as it will contaminate the reels & drums & stems...

 

 

By the way, what is the auction number of the machine you won on eBay?

[wing_gee]

Yes i do live in seattle, we have glazers camera that sell kodak chemicals. I'm not entirely sure how much volume i'm really going to do yet. but if buy those chemicals and just mix as i need it, that'll be fine. but i don't want to buy the chemicals if once i open the lid or bottle, the time is ticking on them.

 

I was curious as to why i wouldn't just use tetenal powder.

 

also curious about the stablizer/fixer process. isn't that all automated in the atl2? why is it bad to use the machine to do everything?

 

the auction number/link is

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7591959246

 

Thanks Dan your a wealth of information

 

Wing

[g._armour_van_horn]

The other choice in Seattle is <a href="http://www.rainierphoto.com/">Rainier Photo</a>, but they just bought Dick's Camera in Burien and are still in the midst of sorting out the move. (Rainier bought Dick's, but the new facility will be at Dick's location in Burien.) Some while back I found that they were more likely to have E-6 chemistry than Glazer's was, but that could have been a temporary issue at Glazer's. I've been very well treated at Rainier, most things have gone out the same day I've called. I'm out on Whidbey Island, and getting this stuff shipped to me from a source in the same UPS zone is a huge difference in price.

 

Van

[discpad]

Wing, you got a STEAL on that processor: The drums and Mistral dryer ALONE are worth over $400!

 

 

OK, going down the list... First, make sure you clean the filter on the Mistral dryer: In my case, the foam had deteriorated, so I had to buy a 24" square of furnace filter material -- Enough for about 8 filters, so if you want one email me your address and I'll drop one in the mail to you.

 

 

Next, the tubing looks a bit ragged: The air hose is simply vinyl, available at Home Depot for about $3 for a 25 foot roll; while the silicone chemistry tubing is (probably) available at W.W. Grainger's. But, check it out first and see if it passes the air leak checks and the fluid pumps correctly: You *may* be able to postpone replacement until later if everything checks out OK.

 

 

If you shoot large format, you *will* want a 3010 Expert drum: The 2509N reel that holds 6 sheets is an abortion that survived, as the sheets often touch, and you'll also get streaks from uneven fluid flow.

 

 

If you don't want to spend the $$$ for the 3010 drum, you have a nice alternative: You have a tempering bath as well. Take the lid that holds the bottles in place and drop in 3 tanks, and process them using stainless sheet film hangers a la dip & dunk. All you need are 3 tanks in the tempering bath for either C-41 or E-6 in the darkroom, because once E-6 hits the third, color developer bath, you can turn on the lights. See eBay item 7594300604 and 7593769731

 

 

Avoid the Tetenal color stuff -- Especially the powdered gunk. Kodak stuff costs less, and is, no pun intended, the gold standard. Fuji Hunt is pretty close in quality, too.

 

 

Van, how far away from Seattle are you? I don't know Kodak's shipping policies; but I know Fuji Hunt has free freight on orders over $500 -- With the HazMat surcharges, in fact it's a bargain -- so it may pay the two of you to split a big order of C-41 and E-6 chemistry, which will last you a couple years. [More on this later.]

 

 

Cheers! Dan

[wing_gee]

that's a bummer. The reply i made didn't go through. I guess a recap of what i wrote.

 

Yeah I got a good deal on it, pretty stoked.

 

I eventually will like to do large format. I use an F5 and on occasion my mamiya 645. So i'll keep an eye out for the expert drum. *searches for a 4x5 camera*

 

Once I get the stuff I'll check the filter on the dryer, but most likely it's gonna have to be replaced.

 

As for the chemistry, Is it true that if i buy a large amount, and not mix it, the shelf life is prolonged? Basically just mixing them as i need it for the week or month? Just trying to get an idea on the shelf life of un mixed chemistry.

 

I just want to thank you very much for the tips and alternative ways of using the stuff. You have definitely help reduce the learning curve. I'm basically just an advanced beginner, still learning the craft. I never went to any schooling for photography at all, so i'm lacking the theory and some background. I'm still searching for my style. But I love photography. I still don't like the look of digital yet. Film just has that "feel" that I like.

 

Please keep the tips coming. I really appreciate it.

 

Thanks

Wing

[discpad]

Hi Wing!

 

The shelf life of the unmixed chemistry is on the order of 18 to 30 months... Here's a quick rundown:

 

E-6 First developer: If you replenish, dump your tank in the six month range or after 4 weeks of inactivity;

 

E-6 Reversal bath and pre-bleach: These are dirt cheap, so mix on the fly and use single shot;

 

E-6 and C-41 Color developers: If you replenish, dump your tank in the 3-4 month range or after 3 weeks of inactivity;

 

E-6 and C-41 bleach: DEFINITELY replenish; and use a regenerator for C-41 bleach as well. Also, be damn sure you aerate it: Go to PetSmart and get the cheapest aquarium pump and a nice big air stone. Then, go to Home Depot and pick up a coil of poly (milky white, not the clear vinyl) tubing. Also, go on to eBay and buy a hydrometer that can measure in the 1.137 range: This way you can manage your bleach tank closely, compensating for evaporation from the aeration: This tool will pay for itself inside of a year. See:

http://vwrlabshop.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_1443 (I just checked on eBay, and there's nothing in this range available.)

 

Fixer: You can use Kodak C-41 fixer for everything -- B&W, C-41, and E-6. Get two tanks, and use two bath fixing: The first bath is replenished with fixer solution from the second bath, and fresh fixer is made to go into the second bath solution. See "Why two step fixing is a Really Good Thing" which I posted two years ago here:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007dXZ

 

What I do is save up my exposed film in the fridge or freezer until I get enough, then run anywhere from 3 to 10 (or even more) rolls. Of course, if I get something that I need right away, I'll process even one roll...

 

Lastly, pick up a film recorder on eBay -- Under $100 for a Polaroid HR6000 -- and you'll be surprised at how often you'll be making slides from your digital files! :)

[wing_gee]

sorry i'm being pretty dense here and need a quick crash course on the process of c-41. What do you mean by replenish. Meaning clear the chemistry that's in the tank in the processor? Here's my thought process on the chemistry. I have done BW but color seems to have a different process and different meanings.

 

Unmixed chemistry bottles (developer, bleach, stabilizer)

 

you mix your desired amount of chemistry. the developer,bleach and stablizer. is stabilizer the same as fixer?

 

you fill the tanks on the processor, 3 chemicals? developer, bleach and stabilizer?

 

do you usually leave the chemistry in the tanks in the processor when done?

 

I'm trying to get a sense of the workflow,process, and how to preserve the chemistry.

 

Sorry for sounding so dumb.

 

Thanks!

Wing

[g._armour_van_horn]

Dan, I live on Whidbey Island. It's only about 40 miles NW of Seattle, but it means that there is a ferry ride that sets the tempo of trips to the mainland. Besides, other than satisfying a fast-food longing or two, I don't much like it over there. Basically, it's about $25 for ferry and car expense and a half day shot to run an errand in Seattle.

 

For now, I think my current pattern serves me well. If volume picks up, however, I might rethink it. I've never dealt with Fuji direct, how do you reach them?

 

Van

[discpad]

Although the U.S. website isn't that good, here it is:

 

 

http://www.FujiHuntUSA.com

 

 

For better tech info, the European site has the docs:

 

http://www.FujiHunt.com

[discpad]

<p>Here are the Fuji Hunt distributors for the Seattle area. These are for their digital products; but one or more of them <b>may</b> work with you to get you photo chemicals. For E-6, their chemistry is OK; but the critical one is color developer, for that which I'd stick with Kodak's version: If it's a pain in the ass to get Kodak, then buy the Fuji Hunt CD...

</p><P>

Enovation, A Fujifilm Company<br>

(253) 833-2384<br>

(800) 628-0317<br>

 

</p><P>

Image Control Systems<br>

(206) 624-2646<br>

 

 

</p><P>

Northwest Printers Supply<br>

(206) 762-7065<br>

 

</p><P>

xpedx/Graphics<br>

(425) 251-5300<br>

</p> <br>

[discpad]

Wing,

 

Did your ATL-2 arrive yet?

 

 

A kit like this is what you'll want if you shoot 4x5; though this one (ebay item 7596489647) is too expensive:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7596489647

 

Cheers! Dan

[wing_gee]

yeah i got the atl, so far it's been a pile of sh*t. all the hoses are kinked/leaks/brittle. I haven't even gotten a chance to power it on to see if it powers on. Everything is covered in chemicals /gunk, there are broken plastic pieces which I have no idea where they goto yet. I have disassebled the head to try and replace the hoses. while I was removing the pins that holds the hoses in, a green wire broke off and i'm not sure if there is anything else that's suppose to connect to it. Hopefully i can get it up by the end of the week.

have you replaced the hoses before? the ends are different sizes. The hoses that connect to the bottles are bigger than where they connect to on the head. I'm sure i'll have more questions as I attempt to fix/clean this.

 

Thanks!

Wing

[steve_hanson]

If you are in Seattle, Kull Photo just delivered Fuji-Hunt C-41 to my front door. :)

 

http://www.kullphoto.com/fujihuntchemicals.htm