What is so wrong with the 30D?

[carl_weller]

Well,

 

what a song and dance about the 30D.

 

First weeks and weeks of guessing and rumours and hopes...

 

and then so many people are disappointed because the 30D wasn't what they expected.

 

How could it have been, when the expectations of all had pushed the features of the 30D/

35D so high into the stratosphere?

 

Back in the film days, new cameras were always just an extension of the old - except the

pro models where you got quite an upgrade because you only got a new one every 7-8

years (yes 7-8 YEARS people).

 

Have we all become so captured by consumer electronics' conquest of photography and so

caught up in the gear that we have totally lost the plot?

 

Even the 'lowly' Rebel XT is something we all would not have dreamed could be true just 3

short years ago. We would have happily paid $2000+ for it back then too.

 

I, for one, am happy with the signal sent by the 30D - the game is over, the race is won.

Now its time we all got back to basics and concentrated on photography.

 

Sure, there'll still be improvements, don't fret, but we are already much further along the

journey than I would have dreamt we would be.

 

What say you all?

[erin.e]

Nothing is wrong with the 30D. The problem is people who think that extra tecnology will increase their skill as photographers, but that aint so! Improved technology just makes it much easier to take shitty pics ;-)

[bobatkins]

The 20D was a great camera, the 30D is even better.

 

The game is not over and the race is not won, since for photographers there is no game and there is no race. Believe it or not some of the world's best photographers are still using cameras designed and buit decades ago. In fact some are using equipment that really hasn't changed much in the last 50 years.

 

At some point we'll see a Canon APS-C sensor with more pixels. It won't make anyone a better photographer and it will have, at best, a marginal effect on imge quality, but it will sell a lot of cameras.

 

Anyome who can't produce a great 11x14 print from an 8MP camera simply isn't a very good photographer. 10MP, 12MP or 16MP won't change that.

[yanglee]

I agree. In fact, I think it's a good news. Those of you with a 20D can now save your cash to feed your family; those of us who fed our family first can now buy a 30D. Carl's definately right: get over the parameters, go out and shoot some pretty pictures.

[andrew robertson]

I think everybody who's expecting resolution to top out at 8-12 MP for DSLRs is in for a

shock. It may take a few years, but I think we'll see them pushing 20 or even 30 MP.

 

Look at the progress that Fuji has made in reducing the noise output of their small sensor

f10 / f11 cameras. Translate the pixel pitch of the small sensor into 35mm size and we

have the capability for low noise 120 megapixel sensors with TODAY'S technology.

 

I for one hope they never stop pushing the envelope. Then again, I'm comfortable with my

10D for now. I am sure that everyone who thinks that sensor technology has leveled out

now is quite wrong - hell, the same prediction could have been made YEARS ago when

Canon came out with the 10D. The 10D didn't improve on the D60's resolution - were

they finished then?

 

By the way, I'm not sure that hoping for better resolution and engaging in photography is

an either / or decision.

 

By the way, I wouldn't have paid $2000 for the XT 3 years ago. I was an am happy with the

10D which is much more suited for my purposes.

[pjmeade]

Bob is quite right. If there is a race, it's just for the boys who want expensive toys.

 

I spoke with a photographer taking the official portraits at one of the more prestigeous international sporting events last year. He was still using the same Hasselblad he had used for decades. There was almost no paint left on it, it was almost worn to a pebble.

 

I'm not even going to think about changing my 20D.

[jcs56]

I bought my first dígital camera in 1995, was one casio Qv-10 if my memory doesent fail, it was expensive, and more in bateries. I wish I have bought a lens!

 

My second experience was in 2004, I bought a HP735 I use it a little, It works fine, I prefer to use it than use a cheap film in my Elan, Results are similar.

 

I the same year I start to consider a digital reflex, I luckyly did not have money, the EOS D60 whas very expensive here in Mexico probably 50% more than in USA.

 

In the Last 12 months I spend in film b&w and development of that film $250 USD, this without prints. I love the texture and the grain in a wet print, silver rules. In color I had spent in the same period a little more than $400.. I prefer digital in ISO speeds over 400 ISO.. that was about 6 rolls, develop that rolls in a minilab and asking them for a CD is $15 dlls. including the rool of Fuji velvia ISO 800 or 1600, that makes $90 dlls.

 

At actual prices I am considering seriously to buy a EOS 10D, 20D or 30D.

 

And like Peater says, pros stil using film in medium format. Probably the 'MP race' is in that track now.

 

BTW I don tink a digital SLR will improve my photos, I agree with the previous coments. my photography is going to improve if I study, take photos and to receive you constructive critic, digital is just a tool.

 

Greetings from Mexico City.

[savas_kyprianides]

The incremental update in a 30D incorporates useful features. People�s thoughts and wishes

did spiral out of control, destined for a letdown. The digital camera business development

and marketing seems to be taking its cue from the larger personal computer market to which

it is tethered. More and more we see relatively recent personal computing equipment as old

news and ephemeral. So it is easy to understand a schism between this mindset and that of

people who own cameras that have served them well for decades. For the older experienced

folks, if it is the digital world people are getting into, they are inexorably going to be pulled

along for the ride, albeit kicking and screaming. The young ones who only know digital will

have been steeped in the idea of camera bodies as eminently disposable.

[alexdi]

<i>Back in the film days, new cameras were always just an extension of the old - except the pro models where you got quite an upgrade because you only got a new one every 7-8 years (yes 7-8 YEARS people).</i>

<p>

Why does someone always bring this up? How is it possibly relevant how things <i>used</i> to be? I'm genuinely sorry you had to walk uphill both ways, but frankly, the bar is higher now.

<p>

DI

[PuppyDigs]

"the bar is higher now."

 

Not really. It's the same old. The tools have changed a bit but geargeeks keep aquiring more

geer and waiting for the next new thing and photographers keep taking pictures.

[bennyboy]

Whilst we're at it let's all throw our sabots in the machinery.

 

There's a derogatory undertone to this thread that somehow those who are dissapointed by the 30D are just poor photographers. It's poppycock, there's nothing wrong with expecting something more than a spotmeter, a better display, and various small improvements. What folks here have to bear in mind is that unlike film, digital has not reached its plateau yet, and yes there are many great photographers using 50 year old film cameras, but there are also many great photographers using cutting edge technology, the point is it doesnt matter what technology you use. This does not mean you can link those who want something better with poor photography.

 

Regarding improvement, I don't think that sensor size necessarily is the be all and end all of advancement, but I don't doubt that printers will improve, so higher resolution sensors can't be that bad surely?

 

Personally, I think it would be nice to see lots of the things which are taken for granted on film cameras making their way onto DSLRS - large bright viewfinders, ECF (perhaps), MLU buttons/levers, aperture rings to name but a few.

 

Deriding those who wish for more is just plain wrong and you should all know better.

[pjmeade]

Nicely said Ben. Good points.

 

P

[erin.e]

The technofreak people moaning about the lack of improvements in the 30D are just total tossers. Those improvements are already in place in more expensive Canon cameras the 5D, 1D MK 11, 1Ds Mk11, Get real idiots, you pays for what you gets, if you want those goodies now pony up with the loot and stop bleating.

 

We don't hear professional photographers moaning too much about lack of features in top of the line DSLRs, only firmware problems that become apparent after a new model is introduced, the result is usually a promote firmware update if the complaints are widespread and valid.

 

I can understand perfectly why some people in this thread and similar are getting short with the petulant whingers who expect everything handed to them on a platter and at half price too!

[medina photography cherry]

Exactly right Erin, that is why I bit the bullet and got a 1D MK II, could not really justify the extra $ for the N, but the next one will be.

[roger_kallet]

Two equations...

 

1. Photographer+Camera equals Photograph.

 

2. Good photograher+Camera equals Good Photograph.

 

3. For *Camera* substitute: Film camera (Pro or P&S), Digital Camera (Pro or P&S), Polaroid camera, Pinhole camera.

 

Roger

[scorch]

like everyone has said, its not the camera that makes the picture, its the photographer. Now, of course, there is a point where the camera is at such a crappy quality that a good picture is impossible, but there are very few cameras in that category, camera phone pictures can even be made to look good with a little photoshop. There isnt anything wrong with the 30D though. Naturally I prefer my XT over one but nothing wrong with it. A new camera is nice, but when it comes down to it, it's all in the photographer.

[perole]

Without going into the discussion on good/bad photographer and equipment geeks - should

I upgrade to 30D from my 350D, or should I save the money and rather feed my family?

[perole]

Without going into the discussion on good/bad photographer and equipment geeks - should

I upgrade to 30D from my 350D, or should I save the money and rather feed my family?

[yinkamd]

Per, save your money. I have great 20x30 enlargements (and two 60x30 enlargments) that look fantastic and were taken with my digital Rebel XT. I think I can do almost anything I would ever need to do with that camera.

 

Yinka

[ky2]

<i>"or should I save the money and rather feed my family?"</i> -- Get professional help. Today.

[vab3]

The best improvement you get in digital is feedback time. You can take more pictures (at no additional cost) and review them sooner. THAT will improve anyone's photography.

[matt_needham]

I'm disappointed in the 30D because I was hoping it would cause 20D bodies to drop to absurdly low prices! ;)

[jim_larson1]

<I>There's a derogatory undertone to this thread that somehow those who are dissapointed by the 30D are just poor photographers.</i>

<p>

Very true.

It is both humerous and sad to read this thread. <p>

There are multiple posts in this thread pretty much stating that people should worry more about feeding their family than buying a new whiz bang camera.<p>

There are also "nicer" people basically stating that those pining for a better camera are mere gearheads who couldn't take a good picture no matter what camera was in their hands (I guess only implying that money would be better spent on food)

Excuse me? Get a grip people. In case you have not noticed,<p><big><b>This is a gear head forum</big></b><p>. Discussion of nice photographs is off topic and not permitted. Discussion of household budget priorities is also not permitted. This forum is dedicated to gear heads. And gear heads like to talk about new technology. <i>DUUUUHHH</i>. <p>

I don't talk about Camera specifications at work. I don't talk about it at a bar. I don't talk about Camera specifications over dinner. I go to a gear head forum to talk about this kind of stuff. You all know the places I mean. . places that have names like "Canon EOS forum". This <b>is </b> the place to talk about camera sensors! If you don't want to read posts about how people view <i>new Canon EOS products</i>, then I suggest you stay away from forums that have names like <i>Canon EOS Forum</i>. Do I take nice pictures? Sure do! I have a bunch on my walls. My computer if full of them! No. . .I don't talk about them here. . .here I talk about Canon EOS gear! I discuss the pictures at work and over dinner.

<p>

BTW: My family is well fed. I personally am TOO well fed. (I should spend less on food). I have a good roof over my head, my retirement plan is fully funded, and I have <b>no</b> debt. I talk about buying a new camera tomorrow because I have the cold hard cash today.

<p>

So. . should I just buck up, pass on the 30D and buy a 5D?. . .. ummm. . .well. . .that is a valid topic for a gear head form and I have posted my view on that in a few places. And will continue to do so until the forum guidelines change.

[pto189]

I can't agree more with you Jim.

[jon_austin]

I've read several theories about why the 30D didn't get a higher rez sensor -- the technology is maturing, the market is saturating, Canon blew all its R&D $$ on the 5D, etc.

 

I don't know if the "megapixel wars" are slowing down or not, but I do know that -- given the output of my 20D -- I have little need for more resolution. I can make outstanding 13x19 prints, and that's the largest size I think I'll ever need. Additional resolution would mostly just give me more flexibility when cropping (and use up my storage capacity quicker and slow down my image editor).

 

However, there's the law of diminishing returns to consider here, and I personally hope it eventually gets recognized and applied to the area of dSLR sensors. It's already happened in the computer display arena: flat panels are continuing to grow in size, but the *pixel density* has stabilized. Since the sensor size is constrained to a maximum 36x24mm, there comes a point for all but the most demanding users where enough pixel density is enough.

 

For many, it'll be the 12mp of the 5D. (For some, it may even be less, but we're "already there.") For a few more, maybe 20-24mp. For a stratospheric few, perhaps 32-36mp.

 

I've no doubt that the relentless advance of technology may in fact make possible the 120mp sensor envisioned above. But how many will really want or need it?