Using pre AI lenses on Nikon F801s in stopped down mode

[peter]

I recently read in several locations on the internet in authoritative sources

that pre AI lenses can mount safely and be used on the F4 and F801 by stopping

down for metering ( at the expense of losing matrix metering and of course auto

focus)

 

So I took my lovely old 50mm f 1.4 from my Nikkormat FTN and mounted it on the

F801 after setting the exposure to centre weighted turning the focus switch to

manual. It meters at full aperture (of course giving the wrong exposure except

when the lens is set to full aperture) but here is the problem........when I

press the stop down button ( stopping down the lens correctly; I have checked)

the meter turns off, preventing it from actually metering. Nothing useful is

displayed in the viewfinder

 

Since the literature says this should be possible I am lost - what am I doing wrong?

 

I have tried a couple of similar vintage AI converted lenses and of course these

seem to meter properly as it is not necessary to stop down to meter.

 

Could someone kindly please advise me?

[nilanjan_sen]

The F4 is compatible with non-AI lenses with some limitations, but the F801s is not.

 

http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/nikon_articles/other/compatibility.html

[Michael R Freeman]

"I recently read in several locations on the internet in authoritative sources that pre AI lenses can mount safely and be used on the F4 and F801 by stopping down for metering ..."

 

Putting the metering issue aside, non-AI lenses can be *safely* mounted on an F4 because it has a flip up tab on the AI ring.

 

The F801s does not. Mounting a non-AI lens may jam the indexing tab, and potentially damage the AI ring on the body. If you read that the F801s could *safely* mount non-Ai lenses, the source was in error. Some may mount okay, others may not - it depends entirely on how deep the skirt is on the non-AI aperture ring (which can vary from lens to lens).

 

The F-801s is not capable of true stop down metering (via a DOF preview button) with auto-aperture lenses. It will only do psuedo stop down metering with fixed aperture lenses (like the 500/8 Reflex, which is always "stopped down") or non-Auto lenses (such as a PC-Nikkor, or when a bellows is used). In the latter case the lens stops down as you rotate the aperture ring, since it is a manual aperture, and the light meter reads the reduced light coming through the lens.

 

See attached extract from the N8008s (F801s) manual.<div></div>

[peter]

Thank you for those answers both of you. Michael, does this mean that an AI converted lens should be OK on the F801s body?

 

I must admit while I fully accept what you say I thought the page from the manual did not really cover the issue as you describe it.

 

I did a Google to get the info I relied upon. I cannot recall, it is just possible that the references were to F801 cameras and I either did not notice or more likely just did not realise that the S version was any different in this respect.

[Michael R Freeman]

"... does this mean that an AI converted lens should be OK on the F801s body?"

 

Yes. AI-converted (modified) lenses can be safely used. Once converted, they are essentially AI, and work the same as a native AI lens on the F801(s).

 

"I did a Google to get the info I relied upon. I cannot recall, it is just possible that the references were to F801 cameras and I either did not notice or more likely just did not realize that the S version was any different in this respect."

 

There is no difference with respect to non-AI lenses. Both the F801 (N8008) and F801s (N8008s) have the same limitations.

 

Surprisingly in the copy of the manual I have, I can't find a warning about not using non-AI lenses. They aren't listed in the "Accessory Compatibility" section, but neither is there a caution about the potential damage they could do. But there is a warning not to mount the PK-1/2/3 or PN-1 non-AI extension tubes.<div></div>

[peter]

Michael. Thannks for that. I am sure that at least I saw internet references to the pre AI lenses being able to be used in stop down mode with both F4 and F801 cameras - just not sure about the F801s.

 

However, I will take your advice and not mount the pre AI lenses.

[peter]

I just went back to see if I could find the references. There are a couple at Wikipedia and Answers.com. Here is what the latter says about the F801 (it mentions the f801s in passing in a way that implies it can do the same)

 

" Like the Nikon F4, this camera has the facility to meter through any F mount lens, even pre-AI lenses. This allows full use of the extensive range of F mount Nikkor lenses along with such accessories as non-AI Macro Extension Tubes, Bellows, lens reversal rings, filters and so on, while retaining full metering capabilities. This ability, unfortunately, does not extend through all of Nikon's newer cameras"

[Michael R Freeman]

Peter,

<P>

With all due respect, Wikipedia or Answers.com is hardly a reliable source for information on the subtle intricacies of the Nikon 35mm system, particularly the jungle of Nikon backward compatibility.

<P><i>

 

" Like the Nikon F4, this camera has the facility to meter through any F mount lens, even pre-AI lenses."

</i><P>

This is an error, as you yourself have discovered. The F801(s) will NOT meter with non-AI lenses, as they don't couple to the meter indexing system and you can't stop them down when mounted directly on the camera without shutting off the meter. Because they are auto-aperture lenses, when mounted on the camera the lens aperture remains wide open even as you turn the aperture ring. The only way to stop them down is via the depth of field preview button, which shuts off the meter and locks the shutter.

<P><I>

 

"This allows full use of the extensive range of F mount Nikkor lenses along with such accessories as non-AI Macro Extension Tubes, Bellows, lens reversal rings, filters and so on, while retaining full metering capabilities."</i><P>

 

Partially true and partially false.<p><i>

 

"... with such accessories as non-AI Macro Extension Tubes"</i><P>

 

Partially False - the PK-1/2/3 and PN-1 <b>non-AI extension tubes</b> cannot be used. This is shown in the lens compatibility cart in the instruction manual linked above (*** note at bottom). The other non-AI extension tubes (M2, E2, K rings) are safe because they are not meter coupled and there is nothing on them that will jam the AI tab on the F801(s).<P><i>

 

"... Bellows, lens reversal rings, filters and so on, while retaining full metering capabilities"</i><P>

 

True - but none of these devices is a non-AI <b>lens</b> (with an aperture ring that might potentially bind on the camera AI ring). They are all non-AI (<B>A</b>uto <B>I</b>ndex) devices, because they don't meter couple to any Nikon camera (including non-AI cameras), but they aren't the same mechanically as a non-AI lens. They also don't couple with the lens auto-stopdown lever in the camera. If you attach any lens to a bellows or lens reversal ring, it becomes a <b>"lens without automatic diaphragm"</b>. You can do "stopdown metering" on the F801s (see first attachment above) with one of these devices plus a lens attached, because as you turn the aperture ring on the lens it manually stops down.<P>

Hope this helps. Incidentally, you can safely use all of your unmodified non-AI lenses (and meter via the stopdown method above) *IF* you first mount a thin (6mm) K1 ring on the lens. Your non-AI lens will now also become non-automatic, and there is nothing on the back of the assembly to interfere with or jam on the camera AI tab. But you will lose infinity/far focus.

[alan_olander1664878205]

I looked at the Wikipedia page describing the F801 (N8008). It does say , "Like the Nikon F4, this camera has the facility to meter through any F mount lens, even pre-AI lenses." This, however, is incorrect, as Michael has explained.