M7- half step backward, one step forward

[kristian dowling]

Ok, it seems from the recent M7 posts that there are a

considerable number of people excited. I for one am not. Sure,

aperture priority has been added with an off switch. To me these

are the only real improvements. This makes me wonder......in

almost 20 years, Leica comes up with a camera that can do this.

What are they trying to say to the public? "Hey at least we've

progressed!" I don't call adding 20 year old technology

progression, do you? God knows how much R&D money they've

spent into making such improvements, where the money could

have been spend more wisely. And who's money is this? It's our

money. I and many of you have paid to fund such improvements.

 

<p>

 

Couldn't they have learnt something from the Nikon FM3a? AT

least, they could have added a faster shutter, which i believe is

more useful than adding slower ones that we could work out

ourselves anyway. Having a shutter as fast as 1/1000 sec limits

the kind of photogrphy I like during daylight- shallowing DOF. All

this is is a camera designed for the rich camera buffs out there

that want to use Leica but have no clue nor ability to use it in full

manual. Even then, have they really done a great job of this?

[kristian dowling]

Well if the M7 doesn't end up replacing the M6, I take back my

comments, as the M7's purpose will be to fill a gap in the market.

I am and will only really be dissapointed if Leica replaces the M6

with the M7. Otherwise the M7 would be a nice second

body......we shall see

[dougfromtumwater]

Well, higher shutter speeds would likely bring higher shutter noise

so I'm glad 1/1000 is the top end and 1/50 is still the flash sync

speed.

I wonder if intermediate shutter speeds will be possible for the M7

when in match diode mode? That is a handy low light feature of

earlier Leica M all mechanical shutters.

[dennis_couvillion]

Even if leica eventually discontinues an all mechanical body, we'll

all be dead and gone by the time all the M6s, M3s, M2s, etc. are used

up. And probably by that time everyone will have gone digital

anyway. Leica is just trying to keep up with the market trends.

They have to if they want to remain in existence.

[dennis_couvillion]

One last comment about the M7: I'll bet it takes great pictures.

[philip_allsopp]

The "M" series seems to work for many very successful

photographers. M4, M6, M7 - fact is the cameras are designed

and built extremely well, can take the rough and tumble of use,

have world-class optics and let the photographer control how the

image is made. Its the creativity of the photographer and the eye

for the shot that makes the difference, I think. The '"M" series are

first class tools. I think I'll be keeping my M6 TTL for many years.

Its too easy to get sucked into "feature creep".

 

<p>

 

I suspect the only reason Leica feels compelled to bring out yet

another tweak to its "M" series film cameras is to satisfy the

pundits who are too eager to report on the impending death of

the company.

[david_killick]

I agree a faster shutter peed would make possible use of wider

apertures with today's excellent high speed films, thus maximising the

qualities of Leica optics.

[harold2]

It always fascinates me the way in which some people who have bought

a Leica are so interested in having more bells and whistles added to

it. It forces the question: If you are so unhappy with the way a

Leica is, why did you buy one in the first place?

 

<p>

 

I am not a luddite! I have Nikons with AF and even a digital Nikon. I

bought 2 Leica M6s as tools because they are ideal tools for a

certain aspect of the photography I do. They are simple, unobtrusive

cameras with, arguably, the finest 35mm glass available in the world.

 

<p>

 

If I wanted an AF rangefinder I would buy a Contax. If I wanted a

more modern manual focus rangefinder I would buy a Konica.

 

<p>

 

While I am not, as such, opposed to futher features on the Leica M, I

really don't think it is that important.

 

<p>

 

Some people want a digital M. Fine. Maybe one day, when digital

sensors can do justice to Leica lenses, I will buy a digital body for

my Leica system. At the moment there is NO digital sensor which can

do justice to the glass. Why sacrifice quality for convenience. If

current digital technology is good enough, then you don't need Leica

glass.

 

<p>

 

While I have various autoexposure options on my Nikons I have found

that my hitrate of correctly exposed trannies is higher when I shoot

with manual exposure choice. While I might buy an M7 you can be sure

that the AUTO setting would see virtually no use at all.

 

<p>

 

I think peop-le must be careful. "If it ain't broke, don't try and

fix it." would seem to apply here. If you want an all-singing, all-

dancing camera then a Leica M isn't your cup of tea.

 

<p>

 

Kind regards

 

<p>

 

Harold

[sparkie]

Yeh, total agreement with those who aren't excited by the new

M7. Aperure priority is nice but the 1000th speed is still a

let-down. I don't believe in a half-way option. You either go one

end or the other. If faster shutter and ap. priority etc is what you

want, go for an R8 if you want to stick with Leica.

 

<p>

 

For my money I am going to stick with my M6TTL (my modern

version of a rangefinder, until they come out with a faster shutter

speed option) and my M4 (my classic ALL manual version).

 

<p>

 

Old is still better. Simple is Best.

[michael_kastner]

<ol TYPE=a>

<li>

I'm afraid I'm repeating myself again.</li>

 

<p>

 

<li>

I'm repeating myself because all these topics here about M7 are

repeats too.</li>

 

<p>

 

<li>

As just mentioned in the parallel posting (<u><font color="#3366FF"><a

href="http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0087uf"

>id=0087uf</a></font></u>), the whole thing is somehow pretty

perverse. Leica is simply one example, but a good example. <font

color="#FF0000">The younger these things get, the more we want the

oldies.</font></li>

 

<p>

 

<li>

E.g. I've long been working on what to get next (out of M2/3/4s) and

even thought a new M6TTL (this time in chrome) might just be the best

bet. Such an idea was as a matter of fact supported my some of own

best men here in this forum.</li>

 

<p>

 

<li>

So I hope that M7's advance will at least cut down on M6TTL's current

price. But maybe it won't. Who knows?</li>

</ol>

[steven_alexander1]

After handling one of the M7's, yesterday, I will say it is an

improvement like the ttl, not a major change. I would have

prefered an electronicly controlled shutter. Not to acheive higher

speed but to have consistant exposure between bodies with

today's demanding films and for higher fill flash sync.

 

<p>

 

The AE viewfinder readout is clear and the on/off lock is long

overdue. The new ISO dial on the back is well thought out and

having exposure compensation is again catching up to the 21

century.

 

<p>

 

All in all my brief encounter with the camera was a mild okay,

what's next?

 

<p>

 

Happy snaps,

 

<p>

 

Steven Alexander

[alan_purves]

Kristian,

 

<p>

 

"Our Money"? I don't think so. Taxes are "our money". Money spent on

goods belongs to whoever it is spent with. As in "spent".

 

<p>

 

Regards,

[chansonbleu]

Steve,

 

<p>

 

What we really want to know is does the focusing patch still flare?

 

<p>

 

Steve

[stewart_weir]

I shoot mainly from 30th sec up to 500th sec and am more than happy

with the M6 metering. I like the fact that all shutter speeds don't

rely on a battery. Aperture Priority is'nt important to me... I'd

like to think that M6 prices will fall cos I want another one! Don't

think Leica have gone far enough....

[mikep1]

Instead of "Half step backward, One step forward," I'd suggest, "One

step sideways."

 

<p>

 

To me there was no PHOTOGRAPHIC reason to revise the M6 until digital

advances sufficiently to allow the same picture-taking options that

exist with film: depth of field control, no shutter lag, Quick

focusing, etc, etc.

 

<p>

 

But it doesn't matter, they'll sell M7s with no trouble and THAT's

really the main issue for Leica, isn't it? :)

[richard_ilomaki]

To All:

 

<p>

 

The likely reason a faster shutter speed is not to be had on the M6

is that 1/1000 is about as fast as one can get with a horizontal

cloth shutter. A faster one would require an aluminum or titanium

shutter, which is a totally different mechanism, which Leica would

likely have to buy from somone in Japan. Setting up production for

that would be like making their own digital cameras from scratch.

 

<p>

 

I will keep the M6 Classic, as I already have an M7..OOOPS I mean a

Hexar RF.

 

<p>

 

Cheers

[jerry_pfile]

Over looked in all the discourse so far has been much discussion on

the 7's setting of up to 4 seconds in non AE mode and purported AE

exposures of up to 32 seconds.

 

<p>

 

I predict increased sales of tripods and cable releases.

 

<p>

 

Hustling out to buy stock in some of these companies.......

 

<p>

 

Jerry

[doug herr]

>>>1/1000 is about as fast as one can get with a horizontal cloth

shutter.<<<<P>

The Leicaflex of 1964 has a horizontal rubberized cloth shutter with

a maximum speed of 1/2000 sec and a sync speed of 1/100 sec. The

Leicaflex and Leicaflex SL shutters are extremely reliable. I don't

know about quiet 'cuz the mirror flopping up & down makes enough

noise to mask the shutter sound. Could lock the 'flex mirror up &

compare with an M except I don't have an M.

[xavier_dalfort]

Kristian:

 

<p>

 

Leitz camera is making some business in selling their Range Finder

Camera. It seems so nice that their competitors, namely Contax,

Cosina and Konica are trying to enter that "niche".

 

<p>

 

There is no "need" for a very sophisticated camera. I believe the

Leica has spent money on Production process and eventually cost

reduction and repair/maintenance procedure.

 

<p>

 

Like a Rolex Watch: it may not be the most accurate but you can use

it and keep it a long time if it is propoerly maintained.

 

<p>

 

Now, a Swatch has a pretty accurate movement and Seiko Kinetic is

very precise. All of them keep time but, well, you have a preference.

 

<p>

 

Cheers.

[kristian dowling]

Dennis, i bet i can take good pictures.....with virtually any camera-

NOT just an M7

[dennis_couvillion]

True, Kristian. But with all this whining and gnashing of teeth

about the M7, I'll bet it does allow the user to take good pictures.

And isn't that what a camera is supposed to do?

[Spearhead]

First, on a technical issue...<p>

 

<i>1/1000 is about as fast as one can get with a horizontal cloth

shutter</i><p>

 

Olympus had a horizontal cloth shutter in the OM4T that went to

1/2000.<p>

 

<i>But with all this whining and gnashing of teeth about the M7,

I'll bet it does allow the user to take good pictures. </i><p>

 

Most cameras do...