Positively great ... how to totally ignore rating.

[louis1]

What are your suggestions for improving critiquing and visibility for the best images on

Pnet.

 

BUT you must not suggest anything that uses the rating system or involves having

specially selected judges or banding together in critique groups but something that uses

the system as it currently runs (and therefore includes all existing members and photos).

 

Give an idea which can run without intervention by anyone and uses the database which

already exists. No new fields or categories or changing existing options. Leave everything

as is, change nothing.

 

Can you suggest something other than a smartass one liner?

 

The answer is staring you in the face, can you see it?

[will king]

I give up. What is your suggestion?

[mg]

Mysterious post, Louis...:-) I guess I give up too, and I guess that was the whole point of this thread, right ? :-)

 

Not sure whether it fits your bill, but at least I tried to suggest something in the feedback thread that's just after yours in the queue. Unfortunately, it does use some entity selecting some pictures.

 

So, tell us, what's the screaming truth...?

[jayme]

Geez Louis. What's staring me in my face is my computer screen? I love a mystery :) So, what's on my computer screen that I am missing? So what is it that will improve critiquing & visibility for the "best" images on PN. I give up. Tell us. Maybe just actually "looking for them" :)

[yankfan]

Louis, I would think you'd want to improve critiquing for ALL images, not just "the best". That tends to sound like elitism. There are those of us who are not as accomplished as the many excellent photographers found here. We'd like to get more critiques too. Should we subdivide into groups of "the best" and "the rest"? No malice intended--I'm just speaking as one of the people who want to improve and get good solid feedback on how to do that. :-)

[louis1]

I wasn't suggesting that i had a perfect answer. I was genuinely seeking to get some of the

talent here to think "out of the box". So much here is knocking others suggestions, just

trying to start some creative thinking and positive ideas.

 

I would also eliminate anything that reeks of elitism.

 

Again. How can we use the current resources to increase critiques and give more visibility

to the best of photonet.

 

If it is helpful. We have lots of database info on members(favourite/not), categories,

critiquing, images, views etc. etc. What could we extract from this that would give a new

insight on pnet images?

 

Cheers

louis

[bens]

<a href=http://www.photo.net/photo/4062848>Five</a>.

<br><br>

Tous sont bienvenus.

[yankfan]

I just signed up for FIVE. Until a better way can be found, this seems pretty good.

[jayme]

Louis- My personal way is not just a one part answer.

 

1- I look at the "rate recent" & rate & comment usually a few each day.

 

2- I collect a lot of "interesting people" that I try to visit about once a month to check everyone out. I usually don't rate, just comment to avoid mate rating implications.

 

3- I also look up people who comment on my images ( this sounds like reciprocity rating, but I try hard not to be influenced by their positive or negative ratings) half the time I don't rate, I just comment.

 

4- I go through my favorite category ratings queue, "children" at least once a week & comment & rate.

 

5- I look over the TRP about once a week, I've been choosing the "comments" from the drop down recently, but I also now have chosen a favorite category. I also view by highest rated & only comment on those I personally find outstanding.

 

So, that's my magic formula. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not. But....I do not care about ratings, I just want constructive comments. I was an A student all my life, I don't need anymore A's, I want dialog & thoughts :)

[jayme]

Five sounds wonderful, but I am so darned independent, I don't want to feel like I have this dead line hanging around my neck. If I said I would do it, I would feel obligated to do it & feel bad if I didn't. So, sorry Ben, I'm continuing my process for now :)

[bens]

Thanks Jayme, great ideas above.

 

As for Five, I appreciate your sentiment, but you are more than welcome to add your name to the list nonetheless. We each construe a "visit" as we see fit, and it operates entirely on the honor system. You have no one to answer to but yourself.

 

To let others in on what we are talking about, Five consists are those Pnetters (about 90 since we started about 3 weeks ago) who have committed to leaving five comments on others' photos (anyone but their own) every time they visit Pnet. The Five page linked above is a discussion page where you can find the list of others who care about giving and receiving critiques.

 

Jayme, you need not give up any independence, give it a try, I'm glad to not only add your name, but remove it if you would like later. I've always found your contributions invaluable (btw I've tried to steal just about every photograph techique you have displayed, with mixed success), and you are more than welcome.

[louis1]

The best idea is to "make 5 comments per visit".

 

Whilst that is very commendable, how does it help anyone to 'discover' new low visibility

portfolios. How does it promote the best at photonet over the "rated" images? It is an

unspecific and undirected strategy.

 

Has no one any ideas on how to unlock the treasures of Pnet on an ongoing basis.

 

Ask yourself, where is the treasure, how do find it individually?

Louis

[louis1]

......I think it is time for for coffee.

Louis

[a. a.]

This was what I suggested 2-3 months ago:

(if intersted read the whole thing it might make sense to you):

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00ERDc

 

Cheers

 

M.H.

[bens]

Louis, Five is a place to build. If you think there are ways to improve it, suggest it. Thank you for your suggestion that it is "commendable", but as for your comment that it is not sufficnet for your taste because it has an "undirected strategy" --

that's a part of the problem around here -- everyone is looooooooooong on complaints and critiques, and short on doing anything about it.

 

BTW, if you think there are hidden treasures here, nothing prevents you from posting links to them on your community member page, or encouraging others to do so. Its something I do periodically.

 

I'm sure there are other ideas. Time to suggest something Louis, otherwise, I find the tone you are setting here tiresome.

[jayme]

Louis- the other day I was surfing around & somehow came across a portfolio of a young lady that was simply outstanding. I was thrilled, it was so creative & fresh & just down right wonderful. I made several comments on her images & one to her portfolio. She later emailed me & we talked back & forth.

 

I often find "new" wonderful photographers out there. I think the answer is to just look.

[jayme]

Oh, all right Ben :) Count me in :)

[bens]

Great Jayme, I'm on it!

[louis1]

ROFL. Turning posts to personal attacks. So soon. You youngish old people get tired so

quickly.

 

Any ideas anyone or maybe no point considering the challenge.

 

 

Louis

[bens]

btw, i'm glad to add anyone else who leaves a note here for me or at the Five page (link in a note of mine above). 90 people and counting . . . there's always room for more.

 

louis, i'd be delighted if you considered giving it a try too.

[bens]

btw, louis, if you felt personally attacked -- and my intent was to criticize your approach, but not attack you -- I sincerely apologize. Your critique of Five without offering anything yourself grated admittedly.

 

I really don't understand your approach in this thread, and hope you can understand this point of view, which has been expressed by others above. I humbly suggest it is better to make a suggestion and invite responses, then play a sort of teasing game of asking a question in some form of a challenge, criticizing responses, and offering nothing of your own.

 

I've always enjoyed encountering your work and thoughts, and hope we can dialogue more up ahead.

[bobatkins]

Replace the home page with the default TRP?

 

Do I win a prize if I'm right?

[contessa]

I try not to leave a rating unless I'm going to leave a crit as well. Having come through the school of writing, which is much tougher on crits that photographers (try getting through several thousand words unscratched), certainly makes this easier.

 

Rule of thumb; always mention the best things about the photograph as well as what you think might need improvement.

 

I don't think many are hear to show off, we display because we are hoping to learn from those that came before. Fresh eyes help us see what we missed. We can correct it again.

 

Crits without a vote leave me puzzled - did the person forget? Was it an intentional slight? If you're going to crit and not vote at least leave a reason why (if you're a member your fingerprints are going to be all over the place). We're not mind-readers, nor are we cruel and driven to vengence. We're here to learn, laugh, make new friends, and enjoy the experience.

 

How to ignore rating - Look with your eyes, Take time to think what you are seeing; Judge in sections of 1/3rds; Don't be afraid to vote if it isn't your style of photography;if it catches your eye because it is funny, rewarding, striking, or unusual.

 

Enjoy your day:)

[jimknowles]

... everyone would pay and everyone would have to have pictures uploaded before being

able to critique other's work. AND all uploaded pictures requesting critique would remain

anonymous as would all ratings given and the raters names who give them, for the first 3

or 7 days, at which point ALL NAMES would be revealed - of both the photographers and

the raters.

 

Seems to me there is but only a handful of people who actually believe down deep that

ratings - Quote: don't matter End Quote -

 

Also seems to me the real problem is finding a FAIR way to rate pictures.

 

Also seems to me many of the objections to ratings are based on some idealistic idea that

somehow the human ego is bad. My OPINION (and that of most mental health experts I've

read) is that the human ego is normal and the basis of most good manners is the keeping

in mind that one's fellow man wants to feel important and anything one might do/say to

allow him/her to feel important will only further one's own status from other's point of

view. Phew.

 

Artists have (usually) even more fragile egos that your typical non-artist.

 

Bottom line? Everyone likes to know if others like their pictures. But everyone will not like

everyone's pictures the same amount. And if the rating system is allowed to be completely

fair (anonymous on both sides as above) then nobody can really complain.

 

It has been said of this anonymous idea that some will find ways to cheat (perhaps -but

fewer will be able to do so than do now) and some complained they didn't like not having

their images ID'd due to copyright. On this copyright issue keep in mind these images are

stolen and used everyday all over the internet as it is - so the copyright thing is a moot

point.

 

Besides - it might very well be possible to to reveal the names of both the photogs and the

raters AFTER the first 3 or 7 days.

 

Bottom - bottom line? WIth so many thousands of visitors to P.net, from all over the world,

visting p.net everyday - allowing everyone to rate and all pictures to be rated straight up

without any restraints would give everyone a fair idea of just how their pictures stack up.

Re: those who are die-hard Quote: I'm just here to learn and get feedback. End Quote -

you wouldn't get any fewer comments or less feedback or advice than you do now. And

since you - I just want to learn types- don't care about ratings at all and have no need to

have your ego massaged, I'm sure you would be more than happy to allow everyone else

whatever joy and or lack thereof they might get from this concept.

[louis1]

The site works best with galleries eg TRP etc.

 

My suggestion is to view my favourite photographers commented on &/or top rated

images and also their images. Just one gallery option - images commented/rated last

month.

 

I also think that the anonymity should be there for poster and rate/comment for the first

week.

 

I also suggest that the 24hour TRP be removed completely.

 

I also suggest that images in the queues for rating are there in the queue for X amount of

time NOT until they get X rates.

 

I suggest that subscribers votes count for more than non subscribers.

 

I suggest that subscribers rates go to their own subscribers TRP of the week.

 

I suggest that suggestions are tried to see if they work not just dismissed totally.

 

 

Enough.

 

Louis

 

PS Jayme I do all that you do, my aim is to try to learn the ones you find interesting and of

course quite a few other of my favourite photographers-in an easy way without having to

hunt all over your community page. Thanks. Louis