how to determine if lens is USA or grey market

[mihut_ionescu]

I have the serial number of a used lens I want to purchase and want to

determine if it's USA or grey market. The seller doesn't know. It's

a very pricey lens in very good condition, but I still need to know in

advance that it's USA so that Nikon will take it for any (paid)

repairs (I heard Nikon has a reputation for not accepting grey market

lenses for repair even if the client pays for it). Thank you.

[armando_roldan]

It doesn't matter if a US or grey market. Used is used and if you are not the orignal owner, you pay for repairs regardless. And if he still got the original unfill warranty card, you will also need to supply a copy of the store sales recipt.

 

This is for Ebay type sales or the ca,era store down the street or Adorama,etc. A store might gave you a 14day/30day/90 day guarantee but other than that, you take your chances.

[armando_roldan]

And there are other places tht repair Nikon glass besides Nikon. I understand a place called or in Morton Grove is very good and reasonable.

[ShunCheung]

It is not just a reputation, Nikon USA will not repair any gray-market Nikon products even with a fee to discourage people from buying them, thus denying Nikon USA's profit. However, since Nikon USA charges so much for repairs, once it is out of warranty, which only covers the first-hand owner, you might want to have someone else repair it anyway, regardless of whether it was originally US or gray.

 

If I were you, I would tell the seller that since he/she doesn't know, you assume that it is gray and therefore the value is lower because Nikon USA might not repair it.

 

Here is the thread about APS in Morton Grove near Chicago where I had my gray 200mm/f4 macro fixed:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BxJs

[mihut_ionescu]

Back to the original question: given the serial number, can I find out whether a lens is USA or grey market?

[ShunCheung]

You can check some old threads on the US vs. Gray issue:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/admin-q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=006OP1

 

If I remember correctly, unless the owner has the original warranty papers, you need to take the item in person to Nikon USA. They wouldn't quote over the phone whether a serial number is Nikon USA or not. Some recent Nikon USA lenses have "US" engraved in front of their serial number. Otherwise, there is essentially no way to tell whether a lens is Nikon USA or not, and IMO it really doesn't matter.

 

Keep in mind that if an item was originally purchased outside of the US but via the official importer for that country and you have the original receipt to prove it, Nikon USA would repair it under the universal warranty or for a fee. DSLRs are exceptions, though.

 

I know, it is getting complicated, and I am afraid that the usual complaint about Nikon US and gray market will start all over again.

[don_cooper]

Mihut, later models have "US" as the first 2 digits of the lens serial number. However I don't know when this started (earlier lens models didn't have this coding). You could call Nikon directly to get the info.

[mihut_ionescu]

OK, so models that have "US" in front o the 6 digit serial number are definitely USA, correct?

[ShunCheung]

Serial numbers with US in front certainly indicate US models. The problem is that US models do not always have that indication, even today. Earlier this year I bought a 70-200mm VR and it does not have "US" in front of the serial number, but it is a US model and I received Nikon USA's $150 rebate.

 

Last year I bought two lenses and they both have US in their serial numbers.

 

I wouldn't worry about it.

[photojim]

Of course, the lack of US doesn't mean the lenses are grey market. My lenses don't have US because they were purchased from Nikon Canada dealers. To us, the US lenses can be grey market depending on how they got here.

[joseph_smith3]

I just sent in my 500mm Nikon mf lens to Nikon for servicing. I bought it used w/o any Nikon USA paperwork I emailed Service at www. nikonusa.com and gave them the serial number. They told me to send in the lens for servicing. So I guess it is a USA lens. Call them at 1-800-645-6678 or 310-414-8107 and see what they say. You did not say whether the lens was mf or AF or AF-S. That might impact me whether I would buy it used w/o any paperwork. Personally, w/o all of the required paperwork, I would not buy a used AF-S lens. I would like the expert's opinion on this. Joe Smith

[constance_cook]

Don:

 

Not all new definitely US models have the US on them. It seems to depend on the model and the price.

 

Conni

[ilkka_nissila]

This year all my new Nikkors have come with a "Nikon USA" sticker on them. But no "US" in the serial number.

[ShunCheung]

I have purchased only one lens this year, and the 70-200 VR does have a small Nikon USA sticker on it. However, since it is very easy to transfer a sticker from one item to another, I wouldn't depend on that to determine whether a lens is Nikon USA one or not.

 

On a related note, I just noticed that the US$/Yen exchange rate has gone up to 118 yes per dollar. It was close to 100 or at least in the 105 to 109 range just a few months ago. Maybe some major rebates from Nikon US is forthcoming.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>Back to the original question: given the serial

number, can I find out whether a lens is USA or grey market?

--Mihut Ionescu</em><br>

<br>

Unfortunately Nikon USA will not even help a 30 year customer

avoid buying a used gray market Nikon product without

presenting the product to Nikon at their east or west cost repair

facilities. <u>I tried and was told that, No one in the

company will divulge this information over the telephone. I

was inquiring about a Nikon F3HP and MD-4 Motor Drive. It part

this was a test as I was thinking my first Nikon DSLR would have

to be a used one.</u> This was confirmed four times in separate

inquires, I did my homework well.<br>

<br>

Actually since Nikon USA is a subsidiary of Nikon, Inc., Tokyo,

Japan, there is no real gray market in Nikon products in the USA

due to import and trade mark laws. These customer unfriendly

policies are used to try and give themselves trade mark

protection that US law does not allow them. They may be breaking

various state laws regarding warranties. I think the total fault

lies with Nikon, Inc., Tokyo, Japan. Nikon, Inc. should see that

ever Nikon customer gets proper warranty repair even if Nikon

USA, CA, etc. only shipped the camera on to Japan.<br>

<br>

I agree with most of Shun Cheungs first post. Id be

leery of buying very expensive Nikkor lenses such a super

telephotos and G ED-IF AF-S VR types if they were not Nikon USA

lenses. Otherwise Id look somewhere else for repair or sell

the lens as is and buy another. Also scanning down the threads I

think the information from Shun is good throughout.<br>

<br>

<em>This year all my new Nikkors have come with a "Nikon

USA" sticker on them. But no "US" in the serial

number. -- Ilkka Nissila<br>

</em><br>

This is disheartening. I cant say more without going into a

rant about Nikon, Inc. and their policies and the US and state

governments and their failure to enforce laws regarding

warranties.<br>

<br>

Regards,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.

[RaymondC]

I got a US serial # lens. Its a grey import. Bought new from B+H. There is no way to tell. All you can do is send it away and if it is grey Nikon will send it back to you unrepaired, unquoted for the job.

[RaymondC]

To get Nikon USA to fix it 2 ways.

If the serial number is checked by Nikon to be USA you pay or if you got warranty papers, its free under warranty.

 

If its grey, you need to show your tax invoice for the item. Then you can pay. If you got no tax invoice they will send it back to you unquoted unrepaired.

[mihut_ionescu]

Peter,

 

Good memory! Yes, it's about the Nikon 500mm P lens. You already have it, any words of wisdom after you got the whole setup (tripod, wimberley, etc.)?

[ShunCheung]

The 500mm/f4 P was quite popular among wildlife photographers in the early 1990's. While it continued to be in production for a while, it was essentially superseded by the AF-I and AF-S versions in the last few years.

 

I am not sure that Nikon USA has all the records for lenses from a while back. If you have a lens more than 10, 15 years old, they might not be able to determine whether it was originally imported thru them.

 

One way or another, these older lenses can easily be serviced by shops other than Nikon USA and they are cheaper. Therefore, IMO the entire question about whether something is gray or not is moot, except that it can be used as an excuse to negotiate prices.

[joseph_smith3]

The 500mm Nikon lens I just sent to Nikon at El Segundo for servicing is a Nikon 500mm f 4.0 P lens. I bought it used on ebay about four years w/o paperwork and emailed Nikon the serial number. They told me to send in the lens for servicing. This lens is very well made--quite rugged--and is well balanced and easy to use and focus. If your seller guarantees that it is in good working order, your purchase risk is very small. After you get it, you just have to make sure you do not drop it or let your tripod topple over like I just did. For any long lens, always decouple the camera body from the lens when transporting it. One bad bump and you can damage both the lens or your camera. Joe Smith

[ShunCheung]

<I>let your tripod topple over like I just did</I>

<P>

Sorry to hear that. That is exactly why we always recommend a Gitzo 1325 or larger tripod for the 500mm/f4. While a sturdy tripod doesn't guarantee that your lens won't fall over under windy conditions, it should be a lot safer than some 12xx tripods.

<P>

I used to have the 500mm/f4 P also. I took it to Kenya and the aperture disphragm jammed perhaps because some dirt/sand got inside. Nikon USA charged me $250 or so to replace it back in 1997. Another problem is shipping such a big lens for repair; that is costly also.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>After you get it, you just have to make sure you do

not drop it or let your tripod topple over like I just did.

--Joseph Smith<br>

</em><br>

Im sorry to hear this. I kicked over a tripod in the dark

once. Fortunately the damage was only cosmetic. The load was less

valuable than yours, a Nikon F and a 55/3.5 Micro-Nikkor-P Auto.

The lens escaped unharmed. The unmetered prism took the bulk of

the impact. Somehow the prism did not shatter. I repaired the

prism myself.<br>

<br>

<em>One way or another, these older lenses can easily be

serviced by shops other than Nikon USA and they are cheaper.

--Shun Cheung<br>

</em><br>

I would not worry about the older super telephotos either. Since

Nikon didnt want to help me I dont worry about lenses

costing under about $400.00 or so including new lenses nor the

older ones costing more.<br>

<br>

A year ago I bought a 135/2.8 AIS and 28/2.0 AIS from KEH.com in

like new condition. They came with everything in the

box except warranty cards that would identify where they were

originally sold wholesale. They even have the latest Super IC

coatings. The savings was good so I dont care. Ill

bet they came from B&H photo or Adorama and were gray.

Probably someone needed to raise money to by a D70. The 135/2.8

AIS works great on my D2H and the 28/2.0 AIS is good but often

shows some color fringing. The 28/2.0 is great with TX which is

still important to me.<br>

<br>

<u>If you buy a new Nikon USA product, please, for your possible

resale and for the new owner, keep everything that came in the

box and keep the original sales slip</u>.<br>

<br>

Regards,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.

[michael_millard]

I am not an attorney, nor am I a professional risk management expert.

I am, however, Managing Partner for a Limited Liability Company which manufactures a life-safety product. Our limited warranty is 5-years and we don't care who the original purchaser was, or where they reside when it breaks! We fix it, no matter what, no questions.

(Hey Nikon, listen-up / great for sales and reputation!)

 

Since I know something about warranties, here we go:

 

In the US. All you need to know is the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

To summarize:

 

Passed by Congress in 1975, it REQUIRES manufactuers and sellers of consumer products to provide consumers with detailed information about warranty coverage.

 

It REQUIRES that consumers have access to complete warranty information BEFORE purchase.

 

The Act does not require any business to provide a WRITTEN warranty, however, once it does, it MUST comply with the Act.

 

The Act does not apply to oral warranties.

 

The Act does not apply to warranties on services, only goods.

 

Finally, the Act does not apply to warranties on products sold for resale or for commercial purposes. (Note: the applicability of the Act to a particular product does not depend upon how an individual buyer will use it.)

 

-----------------

 

The Magnuson-Moss Act does not allow:

1) Disclamier or modification of implied warranties in a written warranty.

2) Tie-in Sales Provisions, and of course

3) Deceptive warranty terms

 

A good portion of the above is redacted from a fantastic book: "Product Liability Prevention" by Randall Goodden. (A good read for anyone in the business of providing a written warranty.)

 

In addition, "Implied warranties" are created by State law, so even if you don't have recourse against Nikon, you still have options. Implied warranties extend to used equipment if the merchant is regularly engaged in selling used merchandise. Implied warranties do not apply to private sales. There are 2 types: Implied warranty of merchantability, and implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose. (Beyond this scope here.) Many States allow disclaiming implied warranties provided a written warranty is NOT offered. Thirteen states do not allow consumer products to be sold "as-is" without at least an implied warranty (there is no way for the Seller to get around it): AL, CT, KS, ME, MD, MA, MN, MS, NH, VT, WA, WV and DC.

 

So, assuming you're in a State not listed:

I would guess that Nikon (or some other Seller) would roll over to the first person who (after going through the usual channels first) brings up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. ---especially if they are in the business of selling "identical" Nikon wares (US or import), when it is IMPOSSIBLE to determine the applicability of the written warranty without calling Nikon (and they won't say!).

 

I smell... lawsuit.

 

But that's just my opinion.

And hey, even if this doesn't help everyone out there with a suspect grey market doodad, at least you learned a little something about US warranty law. (And in all fairness to Nikon -- they just repaired my D70 out of warranty, no questions asked. BGLOD syndrome)

 

-Michael

[alex_lofquist]

From my experience it makes absolutely no difference whether the lens purchased is USA warrenty or not. Nikon Authorized Service in Morton Grove IL will repair it at standard rates. I had my 500 f/4 fixed same day for $105 to replace a damaged lens mount. They said that while they still do authorized service for first owners of Nikon equipment, any other equipment irrespective of import is treated the same way.

[ebogaerts]

I just recently bought a USA warrantied manual focus lens, and the only thing about the lens, box, (the box was the solid yellow color *typically* associated with grey market Nikkors) or packaging that mentions anything about a US warranty was the warranty slip with the serial number written (actually stamped) on it. I have to admit I was kind of suprised.

 

The "5 years of full coverage" envelope wasn't present, which comes with USA warrantied autofous lenses, nor was the registration form. While I have no intention of returning the lens to get the grey market version, I bet that there is literally no difference between US and grey manual focus lenses, aside from the warranty slip.