elizabeth_f1 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 So, I admit right from the get go that I had my camera on the wrong setting. As a result, the photos turned out dark. Which, as we all know is a completely repairable issue. Unfortunately, I have a client who, despite how the actual pic.s look (between photoshop and the lab, the prints look great) she is unable to print them light enough on her own. Anyone have any great ideas on how to tell her that she needs to go to a real lab? She's a bit of a bully and scares me a little bit... I'd appreciate anyones input on this situation. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susan_flewelling Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Simple enough just let her know to get professional looking quality she needs to go to a professional lab. Let her know that you feel bad about the issue and because of that you will give her a discount to print them at your pro lab (husband would say never admit fault, he's a lawyer) to try to defray the cost of the prints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susan_flewelling Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 PS Isn't it funny how the cheaper the client the pickier they are. I always found that to be the case...I don't get it maybe it's just because they don't have the money to spend in the first place. GOOD LUCK Elizabeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovcom_photo Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Were you looking at the historgram during the shoot? That would've told you that your exposures were too dark. You need to expose to the right with out blowing the highlights. This is because more then half of the image information (details) is in the last two stops of the historgram (righ most two stops). You need to get away from this mindset of "oh well, it can be fixed in post processing". Sure often you can but it is far better to get it close at the time the image is taken. It sounds like you were shooting jpg? For weddings, and other very important shots, IMHO one must always shoot RAW, especially if exposure needs fixing. I empathized with your delimma, but I also understand how the client would be unhappy. In the future do the following: 1. Expost to the right with little or no blown highlights.2. After each shot, quickly glance at the LCD, especially the historgram.3. Shoot weddings only in RAW4. Get away for the "we can fix that in PP" mentality. As for a "real lab". This is not necessarily needed, nor is this the real issue here. To defer your goof to asking her to seek a "real lab" I think is not the real issue here. Of course my advise is not going to help your pictures now, as they're already taken. Try not to get yourself in this perdicament in the future by at least considering the 4 suggestions I listed above. I realize that "between photoshop and the lab, the prints look great", but I strongly suspect they'd look even better if you had shot raw with proper/close exposures. The benefits of RAW over JPG are so obvious, it would be silly to debate this point. Always go for 12-bit over 8 bit per channel color, especially for images that real matter. Use the histogram always, it's there for this exact purpose. Hope things turn out okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovcom_photo Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Susan, you make it sound as though a picky customer is a bad thing? Perhaps I misunderstood. I think only a fool would not be picky when it comes to their images, yea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Why not just correct all the images? Depending on what ISO you were shooting, underexposed is better than overexposed ... especially if they're jpgs. If they are jpgs, go get the free Adobe Lightroom Beta 2 processor. You can swiftly work on jpgs in that processing program, with really good tonal control not available in PS without a ton of work and knowledge. Fix the photos and then give them a new disk to take to the lab. NEVER give anyone your mistakes, no matter what. Best of luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurenm Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Elizabeth, first I agree with Marc, to fix them and make a new cd. Assuming it is a cd and not negatives they are given. Secondly, my first thought was this is a good example of why photogs shouldn't promise cds or negs. Though, for the few budget jobs I've done, I have. Lastly, I agree with Susan to give a discount at the lab you use. I don't know why the client is being called cheap as no matter what they did or didn't pay, I'm guessing the agreement was they would be provided with photos (printable). If they need to be touched up so much in PS and need special attention from a pro lab, it sounds like they were not images one would expect to receive from a professional photographer. Sorry, but if the results were due to your admitted mistake, it is you to blame and not the client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc_ss Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 My question is similar to others. Why did the clients even see the dark images? Why did you let them know you shot them on the wrong settings? If you made a mistake, there's no reason the client should know if it's fixable. Fix the images before you show them or give away cd's. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gluteal cleft Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 "Were you looking at the historgram during the shoot? That would've told you that your exposures were too dark." ... and then someone would ridicule her for "chimping". You just can't win. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd frederick Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Susan, Just to reaffirm your observation: The less I charge the more bitchin' the client gets! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Did your contract permit her to print her own copies? If so, you should really give her repaired files that will print correctly in general. If the files are "completely repairable" then you erred twice. Once when taking the images and again when giving her defective images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen hazelton Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 We suffered along for several years with a monitor that was just too dark and couldn't be adjusted enough to make it right. It's possible that what she is seeing is a lot worse than what you are seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenco Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I have to agree with Marc - why did you give her the dark images if there were images that were fixed? I have shot a few weddings for clients who just wanted me to turn over the files and even so, I never never never agree to turn over unedited files. I think you should give her a new disc of corrected files to print from and apologize for the mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovcom_photo Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Steve wrote: "Were you looking at the historgram during the shoot? That would've told you that your exposures were too dark." ... and then someone would ridicule her for "chimping". You just can't win. :-) Steve, who would redicule anyone for chimping? Where did the come from? And even if someone might "redicule" her for chimping, why would she care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 TALKING ABOUT CHIMPING So many of the guest, @ the weddings, just assume that we are using digital >>> they always ask to "chimp" the image -- that we have just taken ....:: however we are still shooting film cameras ::... So, they come around the back of cameras ~~ expecting to view the screen? And we kindly tell them that "we use the latest digital -- which actually sends the image instantly (wirelessly) >> to our studios...with a technican standing by at the computer!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susan_flewelling Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sorry guys I hate picky clients. I just got done with one and I think I took 20-30 hours on her final album. She wanted everything removed (plants, drinks, any thing really) and didn't want to pay for it because I told her that I fix the images that go into the final album. Well I didn't quite mean that I was going to reinvent the wheel for her but I did what I promised and next time I will word it differently. I took the question that she asked as how to help with the situation at hand and not how to do it next time since she knew she messed up. Just my two more cents. Good luck Elizabeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olaf_siebert___zagreb__cro Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 @ Susan: and that's how we are slowly learning... as soon as things are not clear people will abuse it in their advantage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellery_chua___singapore Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Ok you need a way out of this mess. Do a couple of prints with your lab say about 20 pcs - assuming these are ok show them to her along say with the same 20 files printed from the cheapest lab you have around your area (ok this is wicked part pick the lab that prints the worst) assume these look like death warmed over - show her the 2 sets. This graphically show case what is meant by printing at a good or pro lab. Cheap is crap. More importantly did you do the ALL correction work on the files handed over - because "between PhotoShop and the lab" suggests to me that you did it part ways and the lab had to do the balance. That is dangerous if your contract says files on cd - implied they are printable but if the amount of correction work there is sig a consumer lab is no going to do this then when the customer prints it going to be crappy. For these sort of jobs I normally would give the client a couple of consumer places they can go print with out any fuss - of course you have to have printed at those places before - tell them whom to contact at the lab tell them to mention that YOU as them there. Inform your lab contact that you are recommending customers over and please for look after the job properly (or you will come out screamming like a bat out of hell - ok bad attempt at humour- anti histimins are screwing up my senses right now). Most of the labs I work with will do necessary slight fine tunning to get it totally right - they know what I shoot for and my files to them are always within the can be printed ok as they are but can be made to sing and dance the can can with a slight twek here and there. Reason being some tweks I cannot do all the way because the labs have slightly different default settings. Hopefully you have collect your payment. This issues is supposed to be a big issue in my area and I hear in the UK - compliants over images on cd that can not be printed right - color casts, exposure issues ect as the photog did not do post processing -it was a cheapie job by a cheapie shoot who shot, burnt and ran off with after getting paid.No editing no post processing. Bargin basement cheap charlie work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conraderb Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Elizabeth - why are you giving your work away on CD if it isn't perfect? I have a section in my contract that says that I am not responsible for any prints that I do not provide or that Pictage does not provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanemeyer16 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 If you don't know enough about your camera or photography. Then you should'nt be shooting someones special day in the first place. Go to a photo tech. school or get your BFA in photography. Place emphasis on film, because then you'll have to learn to shoot each shot perfectly before hand. Then move to digital if you prefer that media. Again I'll say, if you screwed something that simple up, you should'nt be doing weddings just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_viebey___orlando__ Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Brent: That's a big harsh. Maybe she's done 100000 of these all perfect, and just bumped the wrong setting. I'm not sure all the education in the world will absolutely prevent an error. Your comment won't help in an already difficult situation. I like Dan's advice - every event should be a learning experience. This one is just a bit more painful than others. But, also yep, I'd do my best to prevent the customer from ever seeing anything but the best. I'm still a little confused if she really fixed the prints or is depending on the lab to adjust them (bad idea). If they're fixed right, I wonder how she's printing them (God help herif she's printing them on her own printer, which is almost what it sounds like). In that case, you need to point her to some info on how to align printers for correct color. Or send her to a lab that can do the job right. Also, don't let the customer scare you. They can't kill you, and they can't eat you. Worst they could do is walk away mumbling to themself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenco Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 "Maybe she's done 100000 of these all perfect, and just bumped the wrong setting." The mark of a pro is that you are constantly checking for these things and are aware of your settings. It's one thing for a pro to shoot a handful of images on a "bumped" setting. It's another to shoot an entire wedding that way. And that's not meant to be harsh or an attack on the OP, just a statement of fact and a lesson to be learned. Always check your settings. Even when you don't think there's a need to, check your settings. And maybe, for good measure, check them again. I've been doing this for 14 years and I still check settings compulsively. It's saved my butt a couple of times (or more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gluteal cleft Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 "Steve, who would redicule anyone for chimping? Where did the come from?" Who would ridicule her? Oh, there are plenty of people out there with nothing better to do than to think that they're better than others, and ever since the Sports Shooter video on "chimping" came out, that's been the trendy way to look down at people. Myself, I chimp, and I'm proud of it. steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeseb Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Assuming I have understood the original post, I have to agree with Karen and others who put this back where it belongs--squarely upon the shoulders of the photographer. Screwing up--preventable, in this case, by greater vigilance--on a job for which someone is paying you, and then whining when the client calls you on it, is unprofessional at best. The photographer took the job at agreed-upon terms and rates, so it's unfair to criticize the client for holding her to it. If the photographer didn't spell things out better in her contract, it's on her head. It's regrettable that others here are ready and willing to excuse or rationalize such carelessness. Could such attitudes be one reason why some feel professional photographers are held in insufficient esteem, and sometimes treated like lowly technicians rather than creative artists? A pro is presumably being paid to make sure preventable errors don't happen, period. Anything less than striving for 100% perfection (knowing of course that acts of God are beyond human control and that UNpreventable errors do happen) is the mark of amateur hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeseb Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Assuming I have understood the original post, I have to agree with Karen and others who put this back where it belongs--squarely upon the shoulders of the photographer. Screwing up--preventable, in this case, by greater vigilance--on a job for which someone is paying you, and then whining when the client calls you on it, is unprofessional at best. The photographer took the job at agreed-upon terms and rates, so it's unfair to criticize the client for holding her to it. If the photographer didn't spell things out better in her contract, it's on her head. I imagine the client would be relieved to know, as someone her suggested, that her shoot should be regarded as a "learning experience", for which she is paying the tuition. It's regrettable that others here are ready and willing to excuse or rationalize such carelessness. Could such attitudes be one reason why some feel professional photographers are held in insufficient esteem, and sometimes treated like lowly technicians rather than creative artists? A pro is presumably being paid to make sure preventable errors don't happen, period. Anything less than striving for 100% perfection (knowing of course that acts of God are beyond human control and that UNpreventable errors do happen) is the mark of amateur hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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