35mm Summilux Flare?

[35mmdelux]

About 6 months ago I sold off a 35 Summicron, circa 1972. It had been

pretty well

used by previous owners and had some cleaning scratches I didn't

like. I've

heard that such scratches are mostly immaterial to the final image,

but

promote increased flare.

 

In its stead I bought a 35mm/1.7 Aph Ultron. I really liked it but

found

going between focusing and the aperture ring not fluid, at least not

for me. Nice lens though.

 

To the chase: Last week picked up 35mmSummilux, circa, 1982, mint

cond. I mean Mint.

I had almost forgotten how compact these things are. Less space to

store in my

small satchel.

 

Can someone give me a heads-up on its flaring condition? The cron's

circular shade

12585H fits pretty well. I don't know if the Lux dedicated shade is

better.

I believe its larger. Althought the Cron 12585H fits well, the

aperture ring is a bit

hard to access, not a problem on a stroll, but in fast moving action

may pose problem.

Your suggestions please. THKS Much.

[paul_neuthaler]

Have you tried it, Paul?

[Bill Blackwell Images]

My only concern with using the 12585H would be that it might vignette wide open. The shade designed for your lens is the non-reversible 12504. It is much smaller (shorter) than the 12585H.

 

Just test it wide open and if it works to your satisfaction you're good to go.

[35mmdelux]

I got it few days ago and shot a roll yesterday. Will pick up pix tomorrow. Trying to shoot variable cond, side lit, low light, strong light, etc.

 

Just trying to get field report. Moving pretty fast here upgrading much of my gear.

[alan_wilder1]

This lens normally flares in adverse lighting and you need to stop it down to at least f/2.8 to clean up it's effects.

[Rob F.]

I shot a night scene with a neon sign with mine. There is quite a lot of glow around the bright neon, to the point where you can see the glow more so than what the sign spells. I can subdue the glow by printing darker, but then I lose too much shadow detail elsewhere in the picture. The 12504 hood for this lens is, as noted, a bit shorter than the 12585; in addition, it is also more open in the front (although it is still the same diameter in the rear, for mounting on the lens).

 

The lens is very low in contrast when used wide open. This is of course an indication that there is significant veiling flare at the widest apertures. Thus the lens appears less sharp than it really is. That's to say that I find it soft wide open, but not atrocious, as sometimes claimed.

[gaijin]

My pre-asph 35 Summilux was an abominably flaring lens. I was in Canada (Chiliwack BC) a few years ago and was shooting some hikers climbing a granite rock to a waterfall. The sun was to my upper right shining through the trees but not in the frame. I shot a half a roll of the hikers/climbers and when I got the processed film back the flare was horrible and ruined the frames. I was using lux shade.

[eliot_rosen1]

The others are right. This lens tends to flare. Probably more so for the earlier ones due to improved coating in the later lenses. However, regardless of the coating the lens is quite flare-prone, so it is best not to use it under conditions likely to generate a lot of flare. The 35/1.4 ASPH is much improved in terms of control of flare.

[jerry_lehrer]

Paul,-- You want a flare resistant, small, light lens? Ya gotta go for

the v4 35mm Summicron with lens hood 12524 or 12526. Theoretically the 12585 will work, but it is a big cow of a shade.

[35mmdelux]

Hi Jerry,

 

I've seen some pretty good deals on 35mmV4Cron at the camera shows. Far better than anything on bay.

 

I'm going to give the Lux a shot for a while and see how it holds up for me. This is my primary lens and its got to be responsive and I can't live w/ alot of flare to add to my own screwups.

 

I'm working w/ the following right now: 28mm Elmarit-M V3, 35mmLux V2, 90mm Elamrit-M V2. Not decdied yet on the 50mm, if any.

 

THKS

[john_r._fulton_jr.]

Paul A. -- I've used one for more than thirty years. I suppose it flares a bit, but it's never

bothered me. The only thing that has bothered me is the 1-meter minimum focus. THAT is a

drag. Most of the Leica lenses focus down to .7-meter. I like the size of the 35mm Lux classic

so much that I recently took my 35 Lux-asph off and put it away for a while. Size does

matter. <g>

[35mmdelux]

Thanks John Fulton Jr. for your insight.

 

I've really been lambasted(elsewhere)for this Lux. But I just got tired of hitting f2 on my Cron and I wasn't about to go to speedier film emulsions at this time. I like my iso 100.

 

I'm going to test it. I can only say that I've rarely experienced a flare problem on any of my 10 Leica lenses I've owned. The only flare I've ever experienced is the VF of my M6TTL.

 

20 Nikon lenses no flare. 10 Leica lenses no flare. 1 Isolette lens no flare. 4 Hasselblad lenses no flare.

 

I take the naysayers at their word. But its hard to believe this model lux was in production 35 years (!) if it was that bad.

 

35mm Cron V4 Duly Noted. Thank you.

[raffaele_bartoli1]

Paul,

 

mainly I second Mr. Fulton view.

I have a 35 cron asph and don't like the clinic look (sounds in some way "digital" to me and out of focus rendition in the circumstances I use it is often disappointing, with a pixillated view, somebody said).

 

Actually I bought my summilux after a tasty reading of Tom Abrahamsson article on Leica 35s on Karen Nakamura site. My summilux 1.4 is a pre asph Germany version (some says with a much improved coating) and I absolutely love it. Smooth, creamy tonality (I use exclusively tri-x in D-76 and Rodinal) plenty of sharpness from 2.8 on, fast and perfect to handle. Without hood, makes my M6 a carry-everywhere tool.

Out of focus is coherent, reliable, smooth.

Soft at 1.4 ? Not in the center for sure, not mine. Soft in the field at 1.4 ? Sure: Carnot theoreme from geometry proves you that anyway if you focus at the center and you MOVE the frame, you miss the focus. So what ?

 

 

 

Handling, now. If you turn your hood a little bit clockwise (looking at camera from behind) the chrome buttons of the hood get out of the way and you can handle the lens with two fingers: index on focus lever, thumb on aperture ring: it is fast, reliable, comfortable and permits you to shoot without to look at the aperture ring.

 

 

 

If I can find a defect to this wonderful lens I must underline that 1 meter of minimum focusing is really borderline...But anyway I would like to remember that the right tool is the tool that the user feels more, not the perfect one. The concept works for swords, guns, fountain pens, whatever, including summiluxes. M6 and a Mandler 35 ? You wrap your hands around History. Be glad.

 

Shoot and enjoy.

 

R.B.

[francesco_rosato]

Paul, you have a great lens. Sharp when stopped down from f2, quite dreamy wide open. The lower contrast enable you to open the shadows and to detect the finer hues of colours or grays. The little amount of flare wide open in adverse backlight is not a problem in my opinion. In the same conditions of contrejour the concave front lens of aspherics flares and reflects like hell in imprevedible way: I have some shots of Crons Asph with beautiful images of a galaxy or flying saucers. The hood 12504 might help you to reduce flare. I got a 1992 version and I never had (with 12504 mounted) flare or ghost images, may be for the improved lens coating too. In the past I noted that serial numbers 25..-26..-27.. are the best for image quality wide opened but with a hig amount of vignetting and some flare; from 36.. less vignetting and less flare, with good quality in the center. This lens has a beautiful and harmonious passage from sharp to unsharp and stopped down delivers excellent contrast and resolution with a sensation of air inside. This lens has the same character of 50 and 75 Summiluxes with identical colour rendition. Don't sell it if you can, is a part of pre-asph Leica history.

[rgh]

The 35 Summilux pre-ASPH version [ like the 50mm pre-ASPH ] is one of those Leitz/Leica

lenses that generates a lot of negative opinions. I've been using one since the early 70s,

mostly as my main lens, and so I guess I'm on the other side with my experience and think

of it as one of the most 'Leica-like' lenses in the classic sense.

 

Yes, it can flare - especially in the conditions where flare effects ANY lens - strong lighting

on the edge of the frame or even just outside the frame. It is 'flare-prone' if you look at it

that way, but it is about the same as my same period 8-element 35 Summicron, and even

the well respected 1st rigid version of the 50 Summicron were pretty flare prone in the

same conditions. I also have come to think there are age and sample variations because of

the way some users have such problems, which I've not. Sharpness on any of the 35

Summilux lenses I've had is not an issue, very good at the center wide open and gets

better using the couple stops 'stop-down rule' of classic lenses. Wide open with

underexposed chromes you do see quite a bit of vignetting, its can be 'creatively' used as

a compromise, with B&W its not as noticeable.

 

There is a reason that it took so long to up-grade this lens over its almost 35 year

production (not counting the special edition original Aspherical 35 in the late 80s); its

compact, very well made, and can make images that no other 35 can. And until the ASPH

technology this is as good as a 1.4 lens could get from Leica. Many people's opinions

make it seem the lens is all but useless wide open, which is just not the case. I have taken

many low light photos with this lens where flare was not a problem, its not a ' it looks so

bad at 1.4 don't use it lens'.

 

The key I think is to use the lens for what it is. Watch for those flare situations [ you get to

know them ], and understand this lens may not handle them the best ( unless you are

looking for creative effect :-). What it can do wide open is offer a very shallow depth of

field for a 35, very smooth focus 'bokeh' with a rather dreamy look. Its beautiful in those

situations; low contrast overcast days and low light interiors in natural light. It can render

a 'painted' quality to an image like no other Leica lens I've ever had. For 'normal' use the

time tested old method to get the best sharpness/contrast - stop down. Most of the time

its f4-f8 with the later being the fixed aperture for best quality and equals the ASPH which

I also have. So in general I think of it as a f2-2.8 lens with a creative/speed reserve.

 

I traded in my original 35 Summilux when the ASPH came out thinking 'best modern

image', but couldn't live without it. So have both now and I fine them different enough that

its OK. The ASPH has much better flare control, is super sharp with high contrast at any

aperture ( don't need to think about optimal aperture with this lens ), focuses to .7m which

is a big plus and is better corrected in this close range. But for compact lens, with a fast

'reserve', handles beautifully, and can make a special image, the original 35 Summilux is

still a very special lens to have.

[russell_brooks]

I don't know if it's the same for all pre-asp Summiluxes, but mine goes down to more like .9 meters. That extra 10cm makes all the difference...

[x-ray]

I purchased my 35 summilux in 1968 and used it for many years profesionally. It's a great lens but flares like crazy when a light source in the frame or near the edge. In 1970 I did a shoot with Richard Nixon and fortunately I shot a number of lenses. Probably 50% of the images from the summilux were totally unusable from flare caused by small light sources in the frame. I also covered a KKK cross burning in the late 60's and the bright light from the burning cross caused secondary images in the frame from internal reflections. Again I saved the day by shooting with other lenses too. Since then i found many conditions that would render extreme flare that would not cause a major problem in other lenses. Overall I loved the lens but found it to flare worse than any other leica lens that I've owned. I currently use a 4v summicron and a new CV 35 1.2 that i'm extremely pleased with.

 

You will find a number of images shot with the summilux and other vintage leica lenses in my gallery:

 

 

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=5045<div></div>

[francesco_rosato]

Don, amazing shots and important historical documentation of America. My best compliments. Have you ever collect your work in a book? I would like to have one.

Francesco

fmpinked@tiscali.it