I'm so addicted to MF I'm actually looking at Holgas

[mharris]

Well not really. Photo.net has been a great place for me to learn a

great deal about MF, I got a Yashica D from Dean Williams and I love

it. I recently got a Yashica A (with the good lens) from Ebay but

Ebay scares me. I'm glad my first purchase went well with Dean but

I'm afraid of considering higher priced things like Rolleicords. I

know on Yashicas theres is a Yashimar lens to stay away from, but what

other tips can some of you share about different brands and their lens

combinations. Dean has helped me alot with Yashicas but my plan to

collect the A,B,C, and D TLR is looking slim, I can't find anything

out about the B or C. Long post, sorry I guess my question is what

direction should a new collector/user go in?

 

Thanks,

Michael

[peter_evans4]

<p>If you don't mind the risk of divorce, you could try rivaling <a href="http://rd2h-ari.hp.infoseek.co.jp/2GAN_LIST.htm">this</a>. Such a pleasant descent into (bachelor/divorcee) insanity might start <a href="http://www.tlr-cameras.com/">here</a>.</p>

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

Minolta Autocords are excellent cameras - great ergonomics (lever focus) and very sharp lens. But look for a model with a Citizen shutter because they are easier to get serviced.

 

Factor in an additonal $100 - $150 for a CLA. Paul Ebel is a good choice, but there are others.

 

For something a bit different (and less than $100) - look for a Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex with a Zeiss Tessar lens. They are real bargains, but find a manual on the web as there are a number of interlocks (can't trip the shutter if the chimney finder is closed, etc.). Very nice results, though, once you get used to the camera.

 

WW Umbach is the person to have service older Zeiss cameras. He overhauled a Contaflex Super B for me and did really nice work.

 

RObert

[rick s]

I wouldn't be so quick to forgo the Holga. Yeah, it's a cheap toy. But it's like $20. And after shooting with one, it actually taught me some things about how to accurately judge light, exposure, and pushing/pulling film. Don't overlook the Diana camera either. Working with less can be a great learning exercise.

[rick s]

.... the Holga is also FUN to shoot with. Isn't that a big part of why we do this stuff...

[mharris]

Peter those links were better than porn. I was talking to my nephew today, he lives in Texas and we are thinking about setting up a Holga photo contest.

[afs760bf]

Well, don't forget the Koni-Omegaflex, which can produce absolutely marvelous images with any of four lenses on 6x7 format. They're getting hard to find in good condition, though.

[stephen hazelton]

The Diana's seem to be overpriced on Ebay- go for $25-$30 or so, more than a new Holga.

 

If you've never use a Holga, be aware that about 75% of the "bad picture" reputation they have is due to users misusing them- shooting without the insert in, for example. They're not great, just not as bad as you might imagine from some of the photos you see.

[OCULUS New York]

As a guy who went right straight to Rolleiflex, I have since dabbled DOWNWARD, and want to tell you that I just sold, for $125, a 12x18 print of the Palace Theater's new marquee, taken with a $12 AGFA Clack, the 6x9 format point and shoot that rivaled (sort of) the Kodak Brownie of the mid-50s.

 

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=522419

 

It will astound you, and you should be able to buy one on ePrey for less than $30 (they are getting popular though). Great piece.

 

Just a thought to keep your trigger finger occupied until you find the UPWARD move you really wish to take.

 

Cheers,

Ray Hull

[tarashnat]

Michael,

 

Once you have gotten all the TLRs, then you have to chose whether you want to collect

Folders, SLRs, Rangefinders next, or just graduate to the ultimate Point and Shoot: the

Hasselblad SWC! By then you will have spent more money than many governments. :)

 

I would suggest you go in the direction you feel you want to, unless you feel the need to

compete with someone... "I got the 'B' with the additional doohickey before you did!" We all

have different reasons for liking the cameras we do, and sometimes it doesn't necessarily

have anything to do with taking pictures.

 

Taras

[paul_sauer]

Why bother with Holgas? The quality or lack thereof is too inconsistent. There are plenty

of cheap proper TLRs out there (Ricohflex anyone?) that are more fun. When you look at

the cost of film and time to develop, I think a little more predictability and quality in the

camera department are with an extra $20.

[mark_warren1]

<i>Why bother with Holgas? The quality or lack thereof is too inconsistent</i><p>Consistancy is for the weak.

 

<br><br><img src=http://www.peculiarplanet.com/clicks/holga/giant.jpg><br><p>Modified holga with bulb setting

[ben conover]

Insanity, those links are crazy. I want to use my Rolleicord 5 !

I find the focus nob and film advance very handy on the right.

 

If you don't use it, you lose it !

[phule]

<< Why bother with Holgas? The quality or lack thereof is too inconsistent. >>

 

Some people enjoy experimentation. Some people enjoy seeing things differently. Why do you feel the need to stifle that?

[mharris]

Thanks everyone for the great responses, I think I was drawn to Yashicas because it was my first good camera, right after the one that had Poloroid Land Camera written on it. That white cube with the black viewfinder just kept "spittin" out B/W images, one right after the other. I remember the red release button that you could squeeze for some reason, it did something I just don't remember what.

[mharris]

Oh yeah Taras gimmie that Yashica B TLR, hand it over I tell ya!

[francois_gauthier]

So many Yashica TLR models and variations. If for collecting, there must be around 20. B and E are rarer.

 

To use, here are some guidelines : Yashikor are 3 elements (but good ones and less prone to flare), Yashinon are 4 (better 'Tessar' type, so is the earlier Lumaxar).

 

D is an evoluated C : same Bay 1 filters, etc. but it is slightly faster (1/500 instead of 1/300 and has a more modern design : info on top instead of side). Later D have the Yashinon and faster F2.8 viewer but 5 blades instead of 10. 635 are modified D to take a 35mm adapter. They also come in early Yashikor and later Yashinon.

 

Mats have cranks instead of knobs : faster and simpler but more fragile, sometime noisy and unable to make multiple exposures. First has Lumaxar, then all others have Yashinon. Laters have F2.8 viewing and 5 blades.

 

Some have light meters. Early 60s have selenium and are called Mat EM and Mat LM (not to be confused with Yashica LM wich is not a Mat, in fact a much lesser camera). The Younger have a CDS (battery, discontinued but now Weincell). They are Mat 12 (120 only), 24 (220 only), 124 (both) and 124G (both and last model).

 

Wich one to pick : late D is look after but C and early D are fine users, just don't open then more than F8 (use mostly F11 or F16). I also like early plain Mat or EM/LM if meter still works (for black and white shots). In my opinion, the main point to buy a latest 12, 124 or 124G is to get a working meter, otherwise they are more fragile.

 

I don't like the A model : filters and hoods are less available and the slow speeds are absent. For a similar price, C is much better. The 124G is a joy to use hand-held (best of them all for ease of use) but i have a beat-up Mat EM with amazingly accurate meter and partly defective crank that allow multiple exposure that i really like too.

 

Let's say you want a few of these but not too similar : first : a C or early D or early 635. Second, an early Mat or Mat EM or Mat LM. Third, a late D or 635. Fourth, a 12, 124 or 124G. (i have average C, late D, early Mat, beatter Mat EM and mint Mat 124G)

[paul_sauer]

<<Some people enjoy experimentation. Some people enjoy seeing things differently. Why

do you feel the need to stifle that?>>

 

Why do you think I'm stifling anyone's creativity by suggesting a proper camera like a $40

Ricohflex over a Holga? If you want to shoot with a Holga, do it. I've seen interesting work

done with the Holga. But I've also had friends take photo classes and spend a lot of

money on film, paper, and developing only to have what would have been a good shot

ruined by the unpredictability of the Holga.

 

Experimentation is fine anf fun. I'm just saying with Holga you are not dealing with

experimentation that is controlled by the photographer; you are inviting the randomness

of the Holga (samples of which vary in their flaws such as leaking light and lenses with

strange abberrations). I don't know that randomness is experimentation. Then again, I

suppose you could get to know the flaws in your particular sample of Holga, but it will

probably break before you get to know your sample inside out.

 

Look, Holgas have become a cliche -- a cliche statement. Holgas are the cliche camera

people want to use when they want to declere to the world that they "see things

differently". Why not go out and find some obscure MF camera and make your own

statement by using it instead of what everyone else who wants to make a statement is

using? I mean, even the three element Yashica lens would be a statement. Why not get

an old folder, which would allow you to shoot 6x9?

 

A holga is the MF equivalent of one of those disposeable 35mm cameras you see in the

store -- only those have better light seals!

 

If the camera doesn't matter, get something besides a Holga. Because you don't need the

Holga to make that statement.

[mharris]

Thank you very much Francois Gauthier for that information. I started with the D and found an A last week. I really want to get a nice "user" 124 but the prices have gone up and up. I'm very skeptical of Ebay so that makes it harder.

[phule]

<< Look, Holgas have become a cliche - >>

 

Show me something in the world of photography that is not a cliche

[phule]

<< A holga is the MF equivalent of one of those disposeable 35mm cameras you see in the store -- only those have better light seals! >>

 

So what? Do you really think people that use Holgas don't know about the light leaks?

 

I've seen photographs taken with $2000 cameras ruined because of an equipment problem. Your argument is meaningless.

 

There is nothing wrong with using a Holga. It's a tool like every other tool in photography.

[mharris]

I may get a Holga, that top of the line one that costs 34 dollars, hell I would take pictures with a captain crunch box if I could film for it.

[francois_gauthier]

My opinion is : best bang for the buck for any camera, regardless of size, etc. is an old 6x6 TLR . Among them, the best value is a meterless old Mat. These are much less expensive than 124 or 124G.

 

Of course, you must add an handheld meter but it is the occasion to get a better one. I really like an on (or in) camera meter for handheld shots but when using a tripod, i prefer it handheld. You have both your hand free and are more enclined to take your time to shoot.

[francois_gauthier]

... assuming your 'D' has a Yashikor (most have), you already have a nice user, better than 'A' or Holga.

 

A 3 elements like Yashikor has one advantage over a better overall 4 like Yashinon : less prone to flare. So, better suited for sunsets.

 

What should a TLR have to be a acceptable user ? Besides the condition, those specs : at least a 3 elements lens and F3.5 max aperture; speeds 1 sec to 1/200 (or faster) and available used hood and filters (like series V). If the accessories are rarer, they should come with it. For exemple : Genflex.

 

One step above to be a nice user : same things but speeds 1 sec to 1/300, 'standard' bay I filters + hood and a screen that has fresnel for better brighness. Yashica C is such a camera.

 

Another step above to be a serious user : speeds 1 sec to 1/500, a 4 element lens and a better design including info on top of camera. Yashica Mat meets this description (or knobs models like late D and Ricoh diacord).

 

Want more ?: add 'auto' crank + multiple exposure capabilities, baffles, flatter film design, 120 and 220 films able, top 4 elements lens. You get (late) Minota Autocord models I, II or III. Change its screen for a bright screen for best viewing (Maxwell or Beattie)

 

Want just the best ? : late Rolleis Planar or Xenotar (5 or 6 elements) F3.5 or F2.8.

 

Those 2 last top stages cost much more and condition could be tricky since they where pro stuff. They are worth it if you are rich or if you intend to make them your main camera.

[mharris]

Thank you Francois, I think my next purchase will be a 4 element Yashica. I'm kind of luckiy in that Dean Williams, a member here that works on Yashicas lives pretty close and has been a valuable source of information. It would be really nice to find a D with the later lens, I haven't seen one yet for sale.

 

I placed a bid on a Graflex 22 TLR just for fun, I usually loose though. I'm never sure how high to bid.

 

Michael